An English major with a passion for art history, Major General Tracy Garrett found that joining the U.S. Marine Corps allowed her to combine all of her interests, including a love of travel. Her 36 years of service in various posts with the U.S. Marine Corps included acting as the first woman Inspector General of the Marine Corps. Major General Garrett retired from the military in 2014. Today, she continues to take an active role with service men and women and is focused on fostering leadership among young girls, in particular. Studying abroad helped Major General Garrett develop skills she drew upon throughout her career as a woman in senior levels of the U.S. military.

IES Abroad: You were a Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps (NROTC) student at the University of Washington and an English major. What motivated you to study abroad in Vienna?

TG: I received my NROTC scholarship in 1974, and I believe that was the first year women had the opportunity to receive ROTC scholarships in the Navy program. I asked that my scholarship be dedicated to the Marine Corps, and I was commissioned in 1978 as second lieutenant. Some branches of the military require specific degrees of their prospective officers, but the Marine Corps was not restricted in that way. I wanted to major in English and art history, and the Marine Corps allowed me to do that. I chose to go abroad as a way of expanding on the art history education I received at school, which can largely be a matter of studying a timeline and memorizing slides about artwork. Seeing these works of art firsthand was such a tremendous opportunity.

IES Abroad: What are some of your memories from your time in Vienna?

TG: The most influential things were the experience of traveling independently and developing a new appreciation for architecture. Going to the Staatsoper (Vienna State Opera) introduced me to architecture as a meaningful expression of culture. I also traveled to Budapest, Florence, Czechoslovakia – wherever I could get to easily from Vienna. I had a flood of wonderful experiences seeing original art. It was magical and so accessible. Traveling to Vienna was my first international experience. Many of the other students had done family travel already, staying in lovely hotels and enjoying great meals. That was not my experience – I was there on a shoe string budget. Luckily, one of the joys of seeing art is that access to it is generally free. I was really on my own, and I loved it.

IES Abroad: What type of personal and/or professional impact did the study abroad experience have on you?

TG: Ultimately, I learned how accessible the world is. Vienna is a very long way from Seattle, Washington. Vienna was even on the edge of being a forbidden travel destination, situated so close to the Soviet Union. This sense of stretching my boundaries opened me up and prepared me for things I later did in my professional life with ease. For example, I was on active duty in Iraq, and in my last five years before retirement, I spent time in Africa. Just because a place is unusual, doesn’t mean it’s inaccessible. Really, the whole world is accessible.

IES Abroad: When you joined NROTC, you did not intend to make the military your career. Why did you decide to stay on?

TG: A large part of my professional career has been as a reservist, which is essentially halftime. The work-life balance that being a reservist afforded me while building a meaningful career was really important. People can be drawn to the military for practical reasons, but then we stay with the military for more heartfelt reasons – for service, for mission. I always appreciated the adventure that comes with being in the military. I have traveled all over, and I have made many professional acquaintances. You see our national government from a different perspective. The work and the adventure just kept getting better and better as I became more senior.

IES Abroad: Did studying abroad help you manage the ambiguities of your work? What skills were most important to successfully navigating your 36-year career with the U.S. Marine Corps?

TG: Studying abroad taught me that accepting a culture that is foreign to you allows you to see the genuine upside of diversity. In our nation, we see the immigrant experience from the outside. But when you are the outsider, you gain a different perspective. Studying abroad feeds that shift in curiosity. You accept that you are going to have wildly unusual experiences, and having that acceptance is huge for grown-up life. Studying abroad is transformative.

The discipline of looking back at the United States from an outside point of view was clearly important to my work with the Marine Corps. All international media is aimed at the U.S., and it flips one’s perspective to see us through the eyes of the Austrians, for example. Looking at our country from abroad made me skeptical of the media and the inputs we get from living in the States. Now, it’s all global, and if you are bound by your national perspective, you are nearly blind.

IES Abroad: In 2007, you were promoted to Brigadier General and then served as Inspector General of the Marine Corps, becoming the first woman to hold this post. In 2010, you were promoted to Major General, a position few women have held. What has being a woman at senior leadership levels of the U.S. military meant to you?

TG: The experience of being a senior leader comes with a tremendous amount of responsibility, especially in public service. You are held to high standards and face public scrutiny. Then, there is the added filter of doing all that as a woman. Regardless of gender, however, you must work your way up the pyramid, and every day is a challenge. Being a Marine or a leader of any kind is complex; the system is bound by an outside framework that comes with inherent prejudices and biases. The successful person will have the skills to navigate that framework. I have faced a lot of gender discrimination, but I think one’s work speaks for itself. Doing a good job is hard to overlook. In a meritocracy, if you do well, if you work hard, you will get promoted. That lessens the influence of discrimination right there.

IES Abroad: What is a general misunderstanding about the U.S. military today?

TG: There actually is a large degree of open-mindedness among those in the military. We are faced with the challenges of achieving world peace, and meeting these challenges involves young people who are idealistic about what’s possible to achieve and about the value of their service to the nation. In general, though, those who come into the military want to do good things. There is a tremendous amount of open-mindedness about how we are going to accomplish our mission and what is possible. There is an intense determination to meet the mission that is not present in other contexts. I have worked in business and in the non-profit sector, but it is different in the military. We undergo physical and emotional challenges together, which builds a great amount of loyalty to each other. Above our commitment to each other is our commitment to the mission. That is a positive and powerful environment to work in. Nothing beats it.

IES Abroad: You serve on the Board of Directors of the United States Automobile Association (USAA) as well as the Girls Scouts of Western Washington. How did you get involved with these organizations and what motivates you today?

TG: USAA is a wonderful organization and business enterprise. It was set up to provide for the financial security and well-being of military personnel and families. The board has been a tremendous experience for me. There are thirteen board members, and four are women. I am honored to be a part of the organization. The Girl Scouts of Western Washington is a position I sought out because I was a Girl Scout for many years, and also because I had a couple of opportunities while in uniform to try to form a bridge between the Girl Scouts and the military. I think of it as the premier leadership organization for girls and women. One thing that many congresswomen have in common is that about 80% were Girl Scouts. They are a very diverse group of women, but they share good leadership abilities, and they likely learned that through scouting. Girl Scouts grow into women who will make a difference for our country.

IES Abroad: Why do you feel studying abroad is so important?

TG: Studying abroad is an opportunity to break out a little bit, to move away from your comfort zone. Your focus might be developing your language skills or something site-specific, but regardless of what your initial motivation is, magic happens when you are open and in a place that is unfamiliar.

With a basic understanding of Spanish and an interest in food, art and music, Barcelona was the perfect study abroad location for Adam Romanow. Immersing himself in the culture and language forced him out of his comfort zone, and he returned home with a greater sense of independence and a new outlook on the world. After embarking on a career in consulting right out of college, Adam decided it was time for a change. Interested in craft beer, Adam left his job for an apprenticeship at a small brewery. Turning his passion into a career, Adam opened Castle Island Brewing Co. in December 2015 with a mission to provide great beer without the pretense that can sometimes take the fun out of craft beer. Read on to find out how learning to communicate effectively was, by far, the most valuable skill he brought home from his time abroad.

IES Abroad: What motivated you to study abroad and why Barcelona?

Adam Romanow: I’ve always enjoyed traveling and exploring new places, so the decision to study abroad was an easy one – I never turn down the chance to experience a new place I’ve never been. As for Barcelona, I took some Spanish in high school and really wanted to be able to study abroad in a place where I had a basic understanding of the local language, but where I could take it a step further and really make an attempt at full immersion with not just the language but the culture as well. I had heard great things about Barcelona from a college friend, and also being a huge food, art, and music fan, it seemed like a natural fit.

IES Abroad: What are one or two impactful memories from your semester abroad?

AR: One incredibly impactful moment for me was when my resident advisor invited me to have Sunday lunch with his family in Esparreguera, a small town outside Barcelona. Although there was a pretty thick language barrier, they opened their doors and arms without reservation, and immediately made me feel like part of the family. It really stuck with me that they could invite in a total stranger – about whom they knew nothing – into their home for a great tradition, despite no common background, ancestry, or language.

IES Abroad: How did you grow or change most during your time in Barcelona? 

AR: My time abroad taught me to be more independent than I ever could have anticipated. Up to that point, college life for me was guaranteed on-campus housing, a full-service dining hall, and a 90-minute drive back home if I felt like I needed to get away. Living on your own in a foreign country, where the language isn’t your own, forces you out of your comfort zone, and for the better. I took more chances in Barcelona than I had ever taken in life, made more friends that I normally would not have made, and really started to look at the world on a much larger scale.

IES Abroad: After graduation, you embarked on a career in consulting, but then changed course. What inspired you to launch your own craft brewery?

AR: Consulting required long hours, and long hours required the occasional beer. I’ve always loved to cook, and as I got more into the craft beer scene I decided to try my hand at brewing. After I left my first consulting job, I took an apprentice job at a small brewery to get a taste for the commercial side, and I immediately got hooked. A six-month gig turned into a year and a half job that had me convinced this was the industry for me.

IES Abroad: In December 2015, after several years in the works, Castle Island Brewing Co. opened to the public. Tell us more about your journey from idea to launch.

AR: Bringing Castle Island to fruition was an incredibly huge task. With so many breweries opening every day, I realized there was no point in being quick, but we absolutely had to do it right. So I took my time. I planned carefully, did my homework, and ran multiple models to find the one that was the right fit. I ultimately decided that I wanted to launch a packaging brewery – a beer company whose primary business is the manufacture and distribution of beer, as opposed to a brewpub or retail brewery, where most or all of the beer is sold on-site. The packaging brewery route meant taking on investors and bank loans, which really forced me to get my ducks in a row on the business plan side of things. But it all paid off, and we’ve been open for 7 months and are already at capacity.

IES Abroad: What makes the Castle Island beers unique?

AR: My vision for Castle Island was great beer, at a great price, accessible enough for the casual beer drinker but quality enough for the beer geek. I spent a lot of time in my mid-20’s chasing the newest, hottest, most sought-after beer out there. But I gradually started to drift away from what got me into beer in the first place – it’s not pretentious, and it’s supposed to be fun; but that doesn’t mean it has to suck, either. It’s this balance that we’re striving for at Castle Island.

IES Abroad: As the craft brewing industry continues to grow, what are some of the biggest challenges you face?

AR: For starters, this is an incredibly capital intensive business. Not only are we marketing beer, but we’re also manufacturing it, and that takes a lot of money. We’re also in a crowded business that’s only getting more crowded by the day. Finding ways to secure shelf space without sacrificing our vision is only going to get harder; this is a constant focus and we have an expert sales and marketing team whose mission is exactly this. Another big challenge for us is that our business plan – which I spent years crafting – has gone out the window. We’re undergoing phase I of a capacity expansion right now, but if things continue the way we’ve been going, we’re going to need a bigger boat, and sooner than we anticipated. To be clear, this isn’t a bad problem to have, but it’s a problem nevertheless.

IES Abroad: Are there any lessons learned or skills acquired in Barcelona that continue to be valuable in your work as a craft brewer and business owner today?

AR: The ability to communicate effectively is by far the most valuable skill I brought home from my time abroad. In Barcelona the language barrier created challenges, and in running a business you’re constantly up against communication breakdowns with suppliers, distributors, accounts, customers, stakeholders… the list goes on and on. But the ability to clearly, concisely, and effectively communicate with these partners on a daily basis is key to running a successful business, and I cannot imagine doing what I do without it.

IES Abroad: What advice do you have for students today thinking about studying or interning abroad?  

AR: I went to a terrific school where I learned a ton, but I still contend that I learned more – in a global sense – in my four months abroad than I did in the rest of the time I spent at college. I cannot stress enough how much the abroad experience enriches who you will become. That being said, don’t fight it; you have to grab onto the handlebars and just go for the ride. I remember a few people on my program who only spoke in English, who would eat at McDonald’s most days of the week, who only hung out with other American students abroad. While I’m sure they had a lot of fun, they used four months to do in Barcelona what they likely would have done at home, and I think they missed out on a much broader, more interesting, more rewarding experience. So take chances, do something new, and immerse yourself in a foreign culture to really get the full experience. Otherwise you’re not going abroad, you’re just going on vacation.

Having lived in Honduras for part of her childhood, Robin Martin McKenna grew up as a traveler and knew she wanted to study abroad in college. Despite coursework unrelated to her Environmental Science major, Robin was deeply impacted by her experience in London. She not only met her husband while on the program, but an internship with the Green Party led her to realize she wanted focus her future career working for a conservation advocacy organization. Today, Robin serves as the Executive Vice President of the National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA), a nonprofit whose mission is to protect and enhance America’s National Park System for present and future generations. After focusing on international travel for much of her life, Robin now enjoys traveling domestically with her family and has been to over 100 of the 400+ parks in National Park System, which is celebrating its 100^th anniversary this year.

IES Abroad: As an Environmental Science major, what led you to study abroad in London?

Robin Martin McKenna: My father worked for the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), so growing up we traveled quite a bit and even lived abroad in Honduras for four years. So I had always intended to study abroad and wanted to go somewhere I hadn't been before. My study abroad experience actually had nothing to do with my interest in conservation and environmental issues. I probably should've gone to Costa Rica to study the rainforest or the British West Indies to study marine biology. But instead I chose London, a city full of history, culture, and architecture with easy access to the rest of Europe. It was the perfect place for me to study abroad.

IES Abroad: What are a few of your most impactful study abroad memories?

RMM: My entire four months in London were impactful. First of all, I was in a house with 10 incredible people who all came from very different places. There were three guys and eight girls. Three of my roommates and I still see each other regularly, I consider them to be some of my closest friends, and four others I stay in touch with. They are all lifelong friends, and I can't wait for the day when we all head back to London for a reunion!  

The biggest impact is that I fell in love with one of my roommates, Doug McKenna. We started dating about a month and a half into the program, so it was pretty cool to be able to have the incredible abroad experience together. We married in 2007 and now have two wonderful boys. Ryan is five and Jake will be two this fall. My study abroad clearly had a huge impact on my future. 

IES Abroad: How did you change the most during your time in London? Did the experience shape the way you think in a profound way today?

RMM: I think studying abroad really gives an individual the opportunity to learn more about themselves...the things they like, the kinds of people they want to surround themselves with, their personal limitations. I know I became a lot more independent and confident when I was in London. I had to. I was completely on my own, other than the 10 strangers I lived with. It's like starting your life completely over. Meeting new people, going new places, making your own decisions every day, it makes you realize all that you are capable of doing.  

IES Abroad: You joined the National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA) in 2000, and currently serve as Executive Vice President. Were there skills you learned or developed abroad that helped you in the early days of your career?

RMM: I interned with the Green Party during my time in London. While I had been interested in conservation and environmental issues throughout my life, this was the first opportunity I had to engage more politically with a group whose values centered around conservation. This experience made me realize that I wanted to focus my career working for a nonprofit, conservation advocacy organization. And that's exactly what I ended up doing right out of college and have been doing ever since. 

IES Abroad: Although separate from the National Parks Service, the NPCA calls itself “the voice of the national parks.” What are some of the most pressing challenges and opportunities facing the national parks today?

RMM: One of the most pressing issues that our parks face is that they are severely underfunded, getting just a fraction of the money from Congress they need to fully staff rangers, repair roads, maintain trails, and educate visitors, among other things. Drilling and mining for resources, as well as energy development in and around park lands can harm fragile ecosystems, impact wildlife habitats, and contaminate air and water in the communities that surround them. Air pollution is among the most serious threats to our national parks and monuments. Dirty air ruins scenic views, harms wildlife and historic sites, and affects the health of visitors. Water gives life to our national parks, shaping land and sustaining plants and animals. Yet, waters inside parks across this nation are also threatened with over fishing, invasive species, impacts from adjacent land development, water quantity and quality, etc. These are just a few of the issues we are working on as we speak up for parks.

There is also great opportunity for our national parks. While incredible natural landscapes such as Grand Canyon and Yellowstone exist in our park system, two-thirds of America’s more than 400 national park sites are dedicated to cultural and historic significance. In recent years, new sites have been added that better represent the diversity of America’s people – and better tell the story of who we are as a nation. For example, we now have a national park site that tells the story of the nation’s first industry-wide strike in 1894 and early Civil Rights history at Pullman National Monument in Chicago. The events that happened there are the reason we celebrate Labor Day today. And just this year, the Belmont-Paul Women’s Equality National Monument in Washington, D.C. and Stonewall National Monument in New York were designated. Belmont-Paul has been home to the National Woman’s Party for the last 90 years and the epicenter of the struggle for women’s suffrage and equal rights. Stonewall is the first and only national park site dedicated to interpreting LGBT history. There are still more stories to be told, and there will be more stories made in the future. History does not stop being created. It’s important to tell America’s diverse story through our parks, the places that hold our nation’s heritage, including the good and the bad. 

IES Abroad: This summer the National Parks Service is celebrating its centennial year. How is the NPCA joining in the celebration?

RMM: The National Park Service centennial is such an amazing opportunity for us to celebrate our parks and encourage people to get out and enjoy them. The NPCA has worked with the White House’s Council on Environmental Quality to support their Every Kid in a Park campaign, which has a goal of getting all fourth graders and their families to a park this centennial year. Additionally, NPCA is challenging Congress, the administration, and the American public to re-engage with the parks and ensure their protection for the next century. 

To celebrate 2016, NPS launched an initiative called Find Your Park to encourage people to get out and visit these incredible places – whether across the country or maybe even in their own backyard. To join in the celebration, NPCA launched our Find Your Voice initiative. We want people to be both national park visitors and national park advocates – in this centennial year and beyond. As part of this effort, this year we’re hosting over 100 activities across the country including service projects like park clean-ups, recreational opportunities like hiking and boating, and even sessions to teach people how to be advocates. Through this effort, we hope to inspire people to find their voice for our national parks. I want to invite each of you to visit our website at www.findyourvoice.camp and see what events are near you. We would love to have you join us! 

IES Abroad: Your family loves to travel, especially to the national parks. What are some of your favorite places to visit, and has your experience abroad impacted how your raise your children?

RMM: Gosh, there are so many places in this country and in this world that are so wonderful for different reasons. Until I started working for NPCA, I did not have a good understanding of all the amazing natural places, cultural landmarks, and historical sites there are across this nation. Having grown up traveling internationally, my focus in high school and college was to get out of the country. After working at NPCA for a year and a half, I was given the opportunity to be a staff representative on a donor trip to Yosemite National Park in California. I remember when we arrived in Yosemite Valley it was quite dark. I woke up early the next morning and left my hotel room. I remember being absolutely awestruck by what surrounded me. The bright blue sky, huge white clouds, and granite formations all around me. It was truly magical. Ever since then it's been my mission to get out and see more. 

There are 412 national park units in our National Park System and I have been to over 100 of them. I've ridden a horse down into Haleakala volcano, hiked up Exit Glacier in Kenai-Fjords, watched the synchronous fireflies in Great Smoky Mountains - the only place in the U.S. they can be found – got engaged in Virgin Islands, seen baby alligators in the Everglades, been locked in a jail cell on Alcatraz Island, helped build a fence in Harpers Ferry, and spotted my first mountain lion in Big Bend while a bear ran across the road from me 20 feet away. I think traveling and experiencing different places and people is so important to who a person is. Both of my kids have been going to national parks since they were months old, and well before they were born. They're both still very young and probably won't remember the experiences they've had so far, but I can't wait until they're old enough and we can take a couple months traveling across this beautiful country. 

IES Abroad: What advice do you have for students interested in studying or interning abroad, particularly those interested in environmental sciences and sustainability?

RMM: I would tell anyone to study abroad. Whether what they do when they are abroad is related to their future career or not, it is an experience that everyone should have. I actually didn't take a single environmental or conservation course when I was abroad, but I did do the incredible internship with the Green Party as mentioned before. To be honest, not having to take courses in my major probably took a little of the pressure off and allowed me to really enjoy my time while I was in London and take classes that I normally wouldn't.

After studying abroad his junior year in Paris, Adam Namm knew he wanted a career that was internationally focused and took the U.S. Foreign Exam on a whim, because it was free and would be a challenge. Little did he know he would embark on a career in the U.S. Foreign Service that has taken him across the world from the Dominican Republic to Pakistan to Colombia. Now, 28 years later, as U.S. Ambassador to Ecuador, Ambassador Namm reflects on how studying abroad in Paris gave him skills he continues to draw upon today, and shares how he brings a unique style of diplomacy through music—as member of a local blues band in Quito.

IES Abroad: As a student at Brown University, how did you hear about IES Abroad and what motivated you to study abroad in Paris?

Ambassador Namm: I had participated in an exchange program my sophomore year in high school. A group of us from White Plains, NY traveled to southern France and lived with students and their families for three weeks, then a couple of months later the French students whom we stayed with came to stay with us. I loved the experience and knew I wanted to study in France during college. When the time came to pick a program, IES Abroad’s Paris program seemed like the right fit given the ability to take courses at a variety of Paris universities, in addition to taking courses at the IES Abroad Center.

IES Abroad: What are some of the most influential memories from your time in Paris?

AN: The people, both fellow American students and the French I knew during the year, including a Parisian girlfriend who was my entrée to “real life” beyond the typical exchange experience. I lived in Montparnasse and loved frequenting the crêperies in the neighborhood. I also took advantage of travel opportunities, visiting many other parts of France, Europe, and even made it to Morocco. All unforgettable, seminal experiences that led me to a career in the U.S. Foreign Service.

IES Abroad: How did you change the most during your time in Paris? Did the experience shape the way you think in a profound way today?

AN: My worldview changed, precisely because I was living in a different part of the world and came to understand French and European perspectives, which didn’t always coincide with American ways of thinking. I recall the French language teacher that led my high school exchange program saying before we departed, “You will think the French are dirty because they don’t shower every day – but realize the French think Americans are dirty because they have to shower every day.” That’s a funny line but really makes one think about perspectives, whether cultural, social, or political. 

IES Abroad: How did you decide to get involved with the U.S. Foreign Service? How did your time with IES Abroad in Paris impact that decision?  

AN: Having loved my junior year abroad with IES Abroad, I wanted a career that was internationally focused. My major at Brown University was International Relations, and a retired U.S. Foreign Service Officer came to speak at a “career night,” which got me interested in the Foreign Service. Before that night, I knew what the State Department did, but hadn’t realized there was such a thing as the Foreign Service. Just about every other student majoring in International Relations planned to take the Foreign Service exam, and I thought, “Why not?” It’s a free exam and I figured it would be a challenge. When I finally got into the Foreign Service (about two years after taking the first exam), I thought I’d stay in for four or five years, live in a couple of interesting places, and then get out and get a “real job” in a consulting firm or bank. Little did I know that I’d be in for 28 years…and counting!

IES Abroad: Were there lessons learned in Paris that helped you in the early days of your career?

AN: Adaptability. IES Abroad placed us with Parisian families, and in my case my host family turned out to be an older nun. Her rules were much stricter than I was used to – for example, my IES Abroad roommate and I were not allowed to use the kitchen other than for breakfast. We had dinner with her twice a week – that was one of the terms of the living agreement – and she served us foods that were new to me, like rabbit. She had lived through World War II and drummed into us how good we had it, recounting her memories of eating rats during the war. She was right, of course, about our level of luxury, and taught me to put myself in others’ shoes. 

IES Abroad: As U.S. Ambassador to Ecuador, you bring your own approachable personal style into your diplomacy through music. How did this approach come about and how has it helped break down barriers?

AN: I’ve played piano since age five and played in musical groups since elementary school. I’ve played in bands throughout my Foreign Service career, including in the Dominican Republic and Pakistan. It’s something I love to do and takes me away from work. I realized early on in my ambassadorship, actually before I even arrived in Ecuador, that music would be a way of presenting my “human” side, which would show Ecuadorians that the U.S. Ambassador isn’t some stiff who only gives speeches and attends cocktail parties. I’ve played with a local blues band since shortly after arriving, and besides playing gigs in bars and restaurants around Quito, our embassy sponsored a six-city blues tour to share this very American style of music with Ecuadorians. Music has really been a great part of my experience here.

IES Abroad: Do you feel that your experience in Paris continues to have an influence on you today?

AN: Totally! My IES Abroad year provided me with wanderlust that has lasted my entire life, and studying in France provided me with skills that have helped me work in many countries and cultures…including Washington, DC, which has a culture of its own!  

IES Abroad: When you think back over your career in the U.S. Foreign Service, what are you most proud of?

AN: Leaving, I hope, each embassy, consulate, and Washington office that I have worked in better off than I found them. I think that applies to any endeavor; the idea that you can improve things by working hard and treating people fairly.  

IES Abroad: Is there any fun fact that you would like to share about yourself?

AN: I have two children, ages almost 20-years-old and 10 months! It’s great to have become a father again in middle age…keeping me on my toes! 

Growing up in Omaha, Nebraska, Daniel Quinn knew from an early age that he wanted to be a writer. Having never traveled much, domestically let alone internationally, he took the leap and studied abroad in Vienna in search of a different kind of educational experience. Daniel recalls the somber environment of a city still occupied by the USA, the UK, France, and the Soviet Union. After earning his undergraduate degree, Daniel began a 20-year career in consumer and educational publishing in Chicago at the American Peoples Encyclopedia, Science Research Associates, the Encyclopaedia Britannica Educational Corporation, and the Society for Visual Education. Dissatisfied with our culture's received wisdom about “how things came to be this way,” he embarked on a coincident career of investigation into the subject. When he was ready to walk away from his publishing career, he was also ready to begin work on a book that would occupy the next twelve years of his life—Ishmael. It was finished in 1991, in time to win the largest prize ever given to a single literary work, the half-million dollar Turner Tomorrow Award established to encourage authors to seek "creative and positive solutions to global problems." Published in 1992, Ishmael went on (to the author's complete surprise) to be published in 25 other languages and to be used in classrooms from middle school to graduate school in courses as varied as philosophy, geography, history, religion, biology, archeology, zoology, ecology, anthropology, political science, economics, and sociology. The Story of B (1996), My Ishmael: A Sequel (1997), and Beyond Civilization (1999) followed, along with many other works of fiction and nonfiction. In our interview, Daniel shares his memories from Vienna as well as insight into his inspiration for Ishmael.

IES Abroad: Why did you decide to study abroad?

Daniel Quinn: IES Abroad came to me as something I'd never considered possible, something I couldn't possibly have organized by myself. It must have been my second semester at St. Louis University. I don’t remember how I heard of IES Abroad, but I proposed it to my father and he agreed to finance it. It was like a trip to the moon. Who in his right mind would turn that down?

IES Abroad: What are some of your most influential memories from your time in Vienna?

DQ: I was a very different person from the one I am today, painfully self-conscious, worried about being liked, silent, fearful of saying the wrong thing. I was working on a novel at the time, though I actually knew no more about writing a novel than about building an atom bomb.

I remember going with another young IES Abroad student to see Les diaboliques, a horrific thriller, in which a woman is literally frightened to death when she finds herself locked in a bathroom and a submerged corpse arises from the bathtub. The student I was with was completely unruffled by this terrifying scene, saying that, working in a hospital, she'd seen things much worse than that!

Vienna was, at that time, still occupied by the USA, the UK, France and the Soviet Union, and the Viennese were a defeated, somber people. You saw them in the streets with their pet dogs—no children at all. Our History professor at the university once said to us, “I have never experienced a change for the better.” Needless to say, we bright, young, optimistic American youngsters were horrified to hear such a thing.

I became quite good friends with a very charming young man who was quite amused to be one of the last remaining members of the all-but-forgotten Hapsburg royal family. Without pretensions of any kind, he spoke perfect English, had studied at Oxford, and was now employed at a travel agency.

IES Abroad: What challenges did you face studying abroad in post-war Vienna and how did you overcome them?

DQ: The greatest challenge was, to be sure, arriving without knowing a word of German. Luckily the natives were delighted to have an opportunity to practice their English! I had a tutor in German, who was a Viennese in his mid-thirties. But after meeting with him for a few weeks, he told me he couldn't go on – he just couldn't stand working with me. Mystified, I asked why. He said. “You won the war!” As if no other explanation was needed:  I, an American teenager, had won the Second World War. Riding the buses, we would occasionally be told to “Go home, American!”

The social imagination of Omaha, Nebraska, did little to prepare me for that of Vienna or any European city. For example, one night when I was back home in Omaha, a friend of my parents asked most solemnly, “How could you stand living around all those foreigners?” It was fascinating to experience the differences between Viennese, Berliners, Romans, and Parisians, too. For example, in Paris they despised you if you didn’t speak French, while in Italy you were welcomed everywhere whatever you spoke (and many of them spoke a very serviceable form of English), and in Sicily you seemed to have no existence of any kind. It was the first time I was living on my own. At St. Louis University as an undergraduate, I lived in a dormitory. In Vienna, I shared the small apartment of a Viennese student. As I remember it, we of the IES didn’t spend much time together except when we were traveling, and then did everything together from morning to night.

IES Abroad: What impact did the Vienna experience have on you personally or professionally?

DQ: Though I rather guarded myself against it, it became an experience that widened me in every way. In a very real sense, we were a band of outsiders, especially so on a continent still recovering from (and far from forgetting) a devastating world war. Though we might not have thought of it this way at the time, we were all learning how to get by as outsiders. I suspect that, without that experience, I would not, twenty years later, have undertaken to create the Stateville Penitentiary Writers Workshop (my idea, proposed to and approved by the warden). The twenty or so members of the workshop were old hands and politically powerful (or they would not have gotten into the workshop at all) thieves, murderers, con-men, street-hustlers. To them, I was very much an outsider. Unlike the teachers who ran the GED program, I was unpaid, so…what was I doing there? For the first few weeks, they listened to me in chilly silence, waiting for me to reveal my scam. When they finally got past that, they revealed what THEY were doing there: they wanted to write best-sellers and make a lot of money, so how was that scam worked? What was the trick, the formula, the shortcut? After I'd spent ten or twelve hours trying to make them believe there was no such thing, one student (one of the younger, brighter ones) raised his hand and said, “Mr. Quinn, are you trying to tell us that writing is just WORK?” I yelled, “That's it! You've got it!” (as if he'd put together the words I just couldn't articulate myself). All the other men in the group groaned, horribly disappointed; they weren't interested in doing WORK. But the young man who dared ask the question said, “Hell, if it's just work, then I can do it.” And unbelievably, he did do it (once he was outside). Never having written a word of fiction in his life, he not only wrote a novel, it was bought by the first publisher who saw it—and who offered him a contract for three more! So what exactly was I doing there? I was there to see if I had anything to teach about writing—and I guess I found that out.

IES Abroad: You have had a remarkable career in publishing, but you are best known for writing Ishmael (1992) with sequels The Story of B (1994) and My Ishmael (1997), among other works. Tell us about your inspiration for the story and its message.

DQ: When the book appeared, almost immediately letters began to flow in from readers of all kinds, many surprisingly from clergy of every faith, who were recommending the book from the pulpit, in their newsletters and bulletins. (Surprisingly, because my expectation had been that, if anything, the book would be denounced rather than praised by this group of readers.) One of the things all readers (like you) wanted to know was where the book came from, what its inspiration was. For me, this pointed the way to my next book, which was Providence, subtitled “The Story of a Fifty-Year Vision Quest.” This was the story of how everything from my life, beginning with a dream I had at age five that decisively pointed me in the direction I would ultimately take in writing Ishmael. But of course I can't begin to duplicate the essence of that book here.

Many of the readers who wrote to me mentioned the difficulty they had in describing the book to their friends, a difficulty I knew very well from my own experience. Everyone automatically asked, “What's it about?” That's a question unanswerable in a sentence or two. One young film-maker produced a terrific 22-minute film about it, called The Eighth City, which can be seen on Vimeo. The film wisely makes no attempt to say what Ishmael is “about.” Instead, it shows what happens to people who read it. I can here tell only a few of the hundreds of strange stories I have about “what happens to people who read it.” For ten years, Ishmael has been used in a Humanity in Action course at the Hong Kong International School. (I have to back up to say that every year I meet by telephone with dozens of classes in which Ishmael is used.) One of the teachers of this course told me last week that he recently happened to run into a student he'd had in the course four years earlier. As he passed, the young man said to him out of the blue, “I'm still doing it.” Puzzled, the teacher asked, “Doing what?” The student showed him a book he pulled out of his pocket. “Reading Ishmael,” he said with a grin.

I have stories of the book making marriages—and breaking them. One reader told me that the love of his life kept telling him he had to read Ishmael, but he kept putting it off and putting it off—until his love found another man who had already read it, and she was gone. The abandoned lover read it then, of course (and finally understood why it was so important to her).

IES Abroad: What advice do you have for students who are considering studying or interning abroad?

DQ: After reading one of my books, a great many young people have asked me, “What should I do? What should I study? What kind of career should I pursue to make a difference in the world?” My answer is that they must concentrate not on what they “should” do but on what they do best—which is all that I've done. A great President would have achieved more than I have, but I wouldn't have been a great President, I would've been a poor one. You’ve got to track down and pursue what you're best at, because only there will you will be your most effective. It's hard (but essential) to resist the easy success that means nothing.

Studying or interning abroad is a wonderful place to begin, because that's an experience that can't be duplicated sitting in the safety of the nest you grew up in. At every turn you'll be confronted by a different sort of person, a different situation, a different way of doing things, a different idea about how things work, a different way to put your talents to use. I know that I was born to write, and that if I had neglected to do that, I would have ended as nothing. But that knowledge didn't arrive overnight; it was years in coming. Is there something you were born to do? If there's an answer to that question, you may not find it this year or next year or the year after that, but one thing is certain: you will never find it at all if you don't look for it.

While studying abroad, Sophia Shaw (Vienna, Fall 1989) witnessed first-hand the events that led to the fall of communism in Eastern Europe. From being in Budapest the day Hungary left the Communist Bloc to Prague the night of the uprising to Vienna as people from Czechoslovakia crossed the border for the first time, Sophia was fascinated by the history unfolding before her eyes. Today, after nearly 10 years as President and CEO of the Chicago Botanic Garden, Sophia is moving on to a new career in non-profit consulting. In our interview, Sophia shares how studying abroad helped her get to where she is today, and why oranges continue to remind her not to take any of our liberties for granted.

IES Abroad: You recently announced a new direction in your career—to provide consultancy services to non-profits. How did study abroad help bring you where you are today?

Sophia Shaw: The new venture is designed to help non-profits increase their effectiveness in strategic planning with the focus being to work primarily with board chairs and CEOs: doing some coaching, enterprise risk management, human resources, governance—a whole wide range of things. As soon as we find a successor for me here at the Chicago Botanic Garden and finish a few projects, I’ll transition.

All of ones life’s experiences certainly are complementary to one another, even if it is not obvious at the time. Relating back to IES Abroad, I was an art history major with an economics minor in college. I went on to earn an MBA and a Masters in art history as well. So, I have always been on these two paths of being involved with nature and art and looking at the economic factors that impact both society and how organizations work. All of my experiences, whether they were in college, through a study abroad program, the Field Museum, the Art Institute or here, definitely build upon each other. The part of the experience that I really enjoyed in Vienna was being able to combine, at a critical point in time, not only my love of art but also the opportunity to be part of the conversation about how to establish the European Union and, for example, if it should have a single currency. I was in a class that explored the single currency concepts versus keeping multiple currencies. It all builds upon each other.

IES Aboard: You studied abroad in Vienna in 1989 and were there when the Berlin Wall fell. What was that like?

SS: We were in Prague the night of the uprising. We were in Budapest the DAY that Hungary left the Communist Bloc. I was in Salzburg the day the Berlin Wall came down. We were in Vienna as the free Czechs came across the border for the first time. We were not just in Vienna with people coming to us. We happened to be in Prague and in Budapest those exact days! It was incredible! It puts being an American into perspective. We were fascinating to people, and they were excited to share their new found freedoms with us. We were all young. We had no historical context for what we were seeing and experiencing. I didn’t really understand what communism was or the kind of freedoms we took for granted. For me, it was a very authentic, human-to-human experience. We watched people come from Czechoslovakia into Austria and, for the first time in their lives, eat an orange or a banana (photo above). Literally, there were piles of oranges and bananas in baskets in the streets. We watched people eat tropical fresh fruit for the first time. There is no context for that. There is no backdrop for that. It was very moving!

IES Abroad: What was the long-term impact of this experience on you?

SS: The experience put into perspective the freedoms that we have. Every time I eat an orange I think about how fortunate I am to be able to go to a supermarket. This is relevant whether you are talking about a country without certain liberties or neighborhoods in the city of Chicago where fresh fruit is not sold in stores. There is a definite applicability to it no matter where you go. We work here at the Chicago Botanic Garden in a program call Windy City Harvest. We have farms in 13 urban sites. When I see the ability of people to grow fruits and vegetables, I’m reminded of that day in Prague, as it is not too dissimilar to watching people have access to food in 1989 that they didn’t have access to before. Everything builds upon itself. More than anything else, it is not taking our liberties for granted. We were there up close!

IES Abroad: How important has having an international perspective been for you in your role at the Chicago Botanic Garden? 

SS: Having an international perspective is helpful in whatever career you choose. Anything! I’m an art historian, and I guess now I’m a garden historian. Just going to the Belvedere in Vienna and seeing the paintings, and then seeing the gardens and the paintings together, and being able to travel in Italy and see the painting and the landscape—I learned so much. I think Europeans think very differently about art and gardens and integrate them in a way we don’t typically as Americans. That is what we try to do at the Chicago Botanic Garden.

IES Abroad: What are some of your greatest memories from your time in Vienna?

SS: Certainly the ones that we already talked about are tremendous memories. Added to those would be going to the opera standing room only ‘seats.’ I have such powerful memories of going to see the opera and standing and watching and feeling. It was so intense and so beautiful. And it was so much fun to go with my contemporaries from the program! Also drinking the new wine in the fall. Everyone has a college drinking experience, but this was much more than that. We went to the vineyards, smelled the grapes come out of the fields, and saw the wine being made in the barrels. The whole experience was very powerful and very exciting—not like two 18-year-olds sneaking a drink. This had a much more cultural appeal to it. Eating and drinking in Vienna was not taboo or illegal: it was cultural. Over wine, we talked and argued, stretching our philosophies and perspectives.

IES Abroad: What is one thing you learned while abroad that remains a constant in your life today?

SS: There is nothing better than taking a trip, and there is nothing better than taking a trip and coming home. You have to push yourself to travel, have adventures, meet new people, create itineraries, and spend your money on going places. You need to break out of your comfort zone, try new foods, and sleep in beds that might have bed bugs...all of those things. Those experiences shape you forever. Then, when you get on the plane, come home and crawl into your own bed with your own sheets, there is nothing better. You can’t have that without going. You have to go away to come home. Both of those experiences are made richer by having travel abroad opportunities in life. Your parents never look so good as they do when you come home.

IES Abroad: What advice do you have for students who are considering studying abroad?

SS: Get out there and see things. Don’t just sit in your apartment. Walk. Walk. Walk. Just walk. Try to absorb everything and see as much as you can. Push yourself! My time studying in Vienna was one of the most positive experiences I have had, and certainly I would never exchange it for anything. I’m a big fan and a proud alum!

As Executive Director of the Internship Programming , Melissa leads a team of talented professionals in developing and expanding IES Abroad’s full-time global internship programs.

mcomiskey@IESabroad.org