During his time as The Frugal Traveler columnist for The New York Times, Seth Kugel traveled across the world on a quest for authentic travel experiences. His passion for immersive travel first formulated when he lived with local families abroad: in Kenya during high school, in Paris during college; and in the Dominican Republic just after college. Through these formative experiences, Seth experienced local culture through the lens of his host families. And during his semester in France while traveling with a classmate, Seth realized the many cultural and linguistic benefits of traveling to small towns and the opportunity to really get to know the people. A proponent of frugal and authentic travel experiences, being invited into someone’s home is one of his top goals when traveling. He recently retired as the Frugal Traveler to pursue other projects. In our interview, Seth reflects on his study abroad experiences and his views on travel and shares what he is working on today.

IES Abroad: Why did you choose to study abroad in Paris?

SK: I was studying French, and I thought that being in a big city was appealing. If I could do it again, I would have gone to Nantes because I now appreciate the value of being in a small town in terms of language learning. But Paris is exciting! My mother loved Paris, and I guess that rubbed off on me. If somebody had said, “You can study French in Senegal,” I might have gone. Another reason is that I was a political science major, and I could take classes at the local university and earn credits that would count toward my major. Also, I was just really into French. I love languages. I was a very good French student. 

IES Abroad: What is one of your best memories from your time in Paris?

SK: In Paris, it was my homestay. I was very lucky. IES Abroad put me with a very traditional French couple. They were grandparents. The woman stayed at home and took care of their granddaughter. The man was a lawyer. They were extremely gracious. They weren’t doing anything special for us, but they had very French dinners: small portions of things I had never had before, that the woman made in her small kitchen. Their granddaughter was adorable. She was probably seven years old. We became buddies. One thing I remember is that I wowed her with my ability to write in reverse, mirror image, with my left hand. I showed her that if you held it up to the mirror, you could read it. She learned how to do it. It was like we had a secret language, the mirror language. We called it ‘la langue de la glace.’

At one point I had a little romance with one of the other members of the class. It was all rather innocent, actually, nothing untoward going on. One time my French parents went away for the weekend and I decided to have her over. They came back early. My bedroom had a balcony and we were standing out on the balcony. We were in no form of undress whatsoever, in any way, I stress, overlooking the Arc de Triomphe. They had completely forbidden anyone to come over. No one could come over. We heard them come in, so I told her that she had to stay on the balcony and hide from the window. I said “Hi, your home early!” and they said, “Who was that girl on the balcony?” I said, “What are you talking about?” Then I realized they had me, so I said, “Oh, she just left. Didn’t you see her as you were coming up?” There was an elevator and there were stairs, so theoretically, they could have missed each other. Meanwhile, I have her out on the balcony. They said, “Well, you shouldn’t have had someone over.” They went to bed, so I actually put her on my back and walked her to the door so they wouldn’t hear two sets of footsteps. It was absurd. It didn’t harm my relationship with the family. We were in touch for quite a number of years by letter.

IES Abroad: What was your favorite field trip?

SK: What I remember most were the trips I took with a classmate named David. We could have gone with one of the bigger groups, but when he and I traveled, we spoke only French together. We were both very motivated. The best trip was when we went to Perigord in southwest France. That was an experience of learning the value of going to a small town. Parisians are mean in a cultural way. No one is actually mean, but it is not the warmest place. I really didn’t make any friends in Paris except for my homestay family. When we went to other parts of France, we made friends. I remember being in a cool old restaurant and talking with the owners for a long, long time and feeling like, “Whoa, this is small town France!” I travel for a living and try to go to smaller towns that are not very touristy. When they are not used to foreigners, they are genuinely more interested in you – “What are you doing here? Who are you? Tell me about life in New York.” There is almost a rule: the fewer the tourists, the happier they are to see tourists. For pure language learning purposes, I recommend going to small towns where people will really want to talk with you. It was going on these small trips around France that I began to realize that.

IES Abroad: What was it like to view French culture from an American perspective?

SK: It was fascinating to see how American culture manifests itself in other countries. The gameshow Family Feud, was on TV. I just loved it! Family Feud is the kind show where they survey the public, and then you have to guess how the public answered the questions. It is not only trivia, but it is about how people think in a particular place. It was very hard to answer because a hundred French people had been surveyed. “What is something you do right after breakfast?” Americans might answer, “Brush your teeth,” while the French might answer, “Go to the cheese shop and buy something for lunch.” It was completely different, which was quite fascinating. In a classic American way, I said to classmates, you guys have got to watch Family Feud in French! One of the IES Abroad professors got wind of this and arranged for us to be in the studio audience. A dozen of us went. I had never been in a studio audience before, so that was an experience. They let us go up on stage and take pictures pretending to be competing. My French family thought that it was peculiar that I had this interest, but a year or two after I returned from France, my host family sent me a newspaper clipping that Patrick Roy, the host of Family Feud in France, had died of cancer.

IES Abroad: What lessons in travel did you learn from your time in Paris that influenced your work as a travel writer? 

SK: There are lessons in just being in the house of a real person. Living with the family in France wasn’t the first time I had done that. When I was in high school, I went on an exchange program and stayed with a family in rural Kenya. Then, I lived with a family in Paris on the IES Abroad program, and right after college, I taught in a Teach for America program and went with one of my immigrant students and his family to the Dominican Republic for the summer. That is three formative experiences between the ages of 15 and 23 in which I had lived in the house with a family while abroad. The more interesting part of any trip is not so much the museums or even landmarks and cute little streets, it is inside people’s houses where you see the real differences. The best thing that ever happens to me when I’m on a trip is to be invited into somebody’s house. That, in a way, is my number one goal in travel. It doesn’t always happen, but when it does, it is always very memorable. I wasn’t really aware of the value of staying in locals’ houses until later when I had to stay in hotels.

Certainly, I also learned the value of picking your travel companions. I really enjoyed traveling with David because of our similar desires to really dive in and travel. One thing I remember about him was that he was a serious practicing Catholic. He always went to church on Sunday. We traveled on weekends a lot, often in some town in France or in Germany. He would go to church and, of course, I’d go with him. To this day, I always go to church…I’m Jewish. I’m not even religious actually; I’m not a practicing Jew. But to this day, I always go to church wherever I go, if I can. It is almost like being in someone’s house. Religious services, especially Christian services – no one is going to turn you away from Sunday mass if you are not Catholic. No one is even going to look at you weirdly. They are going to shake your hand and even hug you. It is another way to get into a culture. It is also one of the easiest ways to meet people, especially after mass. People are typically in a warm, generous mood. I’ll often ask people at church for leads on great things to do. That lesson comes from traveling around with David from IES Abroad!

IES Abroad: You have traveled to many interesting places as the Frugal Traveler columnist for the New York Times. What places are still on your bucket list?

SK: There is some controversy over the term “bucket list” and whether that is a useful way to plan your travel. Of course, there are some places that I would like to visit that I haven’t, like Southeast Asia or India. But I have a different philosophy. I’d rather get to know a place really well than just be there for a few days and leave. Right now, what I want to do most is go back to Brazil, France, or the Dominican Republic. Those are three countries where I have spent the most time and where I feel pretty comfortable and speak all of those languages. To go to a slightly different part of France or Brazil, where I know I will feel completely at home but where it will be different and I can talk with people – for me, that’s more appealing than seeing a new place. The best part of travel is when you can actually feel at home in another country. Once you’ve got that, then I don’t see any reason not to go to that place again, or to a place that is quite similar.

IES Abroad: Why do you think frugal traveling leads to more meaningful travel experiences?

SK: A lot of times, people are scared of being socially unsafe versus actually be physically unsafe. I am completely in favor of doing things that are socially unsafe, things like talking to strangers and putting yourself in situations where you feel very uncomfortable. Those are things that we don’t automatically force ourselves to do. I see this as one of the problems with all kinds of travel today. Everything has been made so much easier to have a comfortable, sanitized experience abroad, and you don’t ever have to make yourself socially uncomfortable. I noticed this on my last trip. I did half luxury, half frugal trip to compare the two. I hired a guide. This is something I never do in my real life. He took me to a market in Quito, and I love markets. You go around and talk to all of the vendors, and even if you don’t speak their language, you can express “What is this?” But because I was with this guy, he did all of the talking to the vendors. I didn’t do this on purpose – I speak Spanish! It was just the structure of having the guide there. It impeded my interactions with the people. The parallel, of course, is life with a family. Make sure you are get out there and meet as many people as possible. Don’t travel in a big group. Travel with people like you who want to really speak the language.

IES Abroad: You recently retired as the Frugal Traveler columnist. What’s next for you?

SK: I’m a bit of a workaholic, and I had three projects going on at once. I needed to give some priority to my other projects. One of the projects is a travel book that I am writing that will talk about some of the things we talked about today. It will come out next year, hopefully. The other is a fairly popular YouTube channel I have that is directed at Brazilians visiting New York. Up until the Brazilian economic crisis, Brazilians were the third largest group of tourists coming to New York. We did a channel that basically helps them visit New York better. Although we give tourist advice, it is mostly about fitting into New York and the cultural differences between Brazilians and Americans. In a sense, it is my vision of travel, which has been evolving over all these years. It is definitely just as important to know how not to offend people as it is to know where to go and what to see. More importantly, it is important to understand that there can be different ways of thinking about things in the world. Take my host mother in Paris. She never put cheese in the refrigerator. That is shocking to a twenty year old American. It turns out that there are real reasons NOT to put cheese in a refrigerator. At the same time, there are reasons TO put cheese in a refrigerator. It kind of depends on what you want from that cheese. This is what we are trying to do for the Brazilians.

IES Abroad: What advice do you have for a student who is considering studying abroad today?

SK: It would be an incredibly dumb move not to study abroad. It is a unique time in everybody’s life, and it’s clearly beneficial to your education. There is no possible way that it wouldn’t be. I can’t imagine a better way to actually learn about the world in a far better way than you could possibly learn in your university. I guess that applies to working abroad as well as studying abroad. I feel like one of the more successful elements of my study abroad is that I did try to escape, to a certain extent, from the group of Americans who I was with. At the same time, I made some great friends while I was there. One of the dangers of study abroad is that it is easy to stay within the American group and not be adventurous or try to make local friends. I would just warn people that it is possible to go abroad and not really make the most of the experience. It is not automatic. You still need to work to have a great experience, even if you are given the opportunity to do this with a program as great as IES Abroad.

Denis Ring learned a lot about life during his year-long experience with IES Abroad Vienna. Through exposure to art, history, and the Catholic tradition, his experience led him to join the Jesuits where he spent seven years studying to become a priest. In what some would see as a 180 degree turn, he left the Jesuits to pursue a successful career in business, later working with Whole Foods to create their 365 private label brand. Now an entrepreneur, he has built an organic candy brand called OCHO Candy, which is becoming popular in the U.S. and abroad. In our interview, Denis shares how his relationship with two of the three IES Abroad co-founders, Clarence and Alberta Giese, changed his life and how he has drawn upon his study abroad experience throughout his career.

IES Abroad: What was the most impactful thing that happened to you while studying abroad in Vienna?

Denis Ring: When I look back on the IES Abroad experience, the most salient, life changing, and most personally informing experience was my personal relationship with Clarence and Alberta Giese, two of the three co-founders of IES Abroad. Our friendship started because I was on the Student Council. This put me in contact frequently with Clarence, and what developed was a close friendship. It was enhanced by the fact that his birthday is one day away from my birthday, and we joked a lot about it. What struck me about Clarence and Alberta was that I had never seen a husband and wife team who had pioneered such an adventuresome, well-designed program in my life. I had never seen a married couple who had the courage to leave the United States, move to Vienna to try to help rebuild the city. The

mission of bringing American students into Europe to learn about European history and art, with all the cultural advantages of living in a city like Vienna, was brilliant. That sense of mission and their passion was really important to me. 

What I respect, and hope to achieve in my own life, is a similar sense of a commitment to a mission and the willingness to follow through on a vision the way Clarence and Alberta have. If I look at role models in my life, certainly Clarence is one of the most influential. I’ve always admired his courage to follow his convictions and to take steps to do something meaningful and honest. I love the way he challenges people. He’ll stay up until three in the morning and challenge everything that you say and everything that you stand for. Then, at the end of the night, he’ll close with an expression of heartfelt love and respect and reverence. That has been remarkably important to me. 

IES Abroad: What else about Vienna and Europe influenced your life?

DR: Being exposed to traditional Catholic heritage throughout Europe, from Vienna to Italy and Spain, France, and Belgium, was a deeply moving experience for me. When we went into Budapest and Prague to see the great Catholic cathedrals, it moved me because there was such strong governmental resistance to practicing any form of faith. To go into these cathedrals, sit in a pew and pray, smell the fragrance of the wet stone and candles, and see the light working through the building – it was deeply influential. It was so influential that when I graduated from Santa Clara, I entered the Jesuits and spent the next seven years studying to be a priest. Had I not gone to Europe, I don’t think I would have had the kind of emotional, spiritual, and intellectual awakening that I had for my own Catholic identity. And to this day, when I’m in Europe, I visit all the Cathedrals I can. My IES year gave me a sense of beauty, reverence, and history that I could not have gotten in the United States. 

IES Abroad: Did any of your coursework relate to this topic?

DR: I did take a course on the history of opera, and I lived in the first district a few blocks away from the Vienna State Opera. I could walk over and listen to the operas. This is the real beauty of the experience. There is coursework, and then there is the real education that takes place apart from the time in the classroom. For me it was the opportunity to go look at the work of El Greco, or to go down to Florence and see what Michelangelo had done and see the great works of art. You go to Rome, you look at The Pieta, and you think, "How could Michelangelo have created something so expressive and beautiful?" It wasn’t so much the classroom as it was the beauty and the educational benefits of being over there outside of the classroom.

IES Abroad: How did your experience in Vienna translate into your career later in life?

DR: It taught me how to behave in international business settings. One of the business classes I took in Vienna allowed me to research a paper on life insurance. I ended up going down to Trieste, Italy, to interview the CEO of an insurance company. I came in as an American student, and he was generous enough to give me some of his time. What I got was a sense of the gentility, respectfulness and the sense of personal time and tradition from Europeans that is so much different from Americans. In the U.S., business dealings are often curt, short, and straight to the point. I think what I picked up from my time in Europe, both in the classroom and outside, was an appreciation for listening and trying not to be an alpha-American, but rather being a gentleman doing business with other gentlemen – and that includes relationship building. You get some of that here in the United States, but it is different in Europe where, if the door is open and there is enough friendship, you can become very close friends. One of the greatest compliments I ever got in my life came from an Italian colleague. He said to me (with his Italian accent), “Denis, you are not like an American. The way you do business is like an Italian, and we feel really comfortable doing business with you because we know we can trust you.” I was flattered.

IES Abroad: How did you apply these skills to your career?

DR: The sensitivity I developed in Vienna worked for me when I was creating the 365 food line at Whole Foods. I had to go to Europe frequently to source my products. Whatever it was – cookies in Belgium, cheese in Holland, soda, pasta and balsamico in Italy, or jams and jellies in Spain – I brought an appreciation of the European mode of doing business. Most importantly, I spoke clearly and I spoke slowly, and I didn’t use idioms and colloquialisms. I remembered living Vienna, speaking only a little German, and not knowing what the heck was going on around me. In every single exchange that I have with Europeans, I remember what it was like to try to live in a society where the host country’s language was not my first language. Most recently, we were in Copenhagen with the OCHO Candy team to purchase a production line. Even though the Danes speak English beautifully and understand it, I pulled the team aside, and said, "Look, I know they speak really great English, but you have to be respectful of fact that it’s not their native language. So don’t use street lingo, and speak slowly and clearly just to eliminate any confusion." I left Vienna in 1977 and now, almost 40 years later, I’m still practicing those lessons I learned about being [culturally] sensitive.

IES Abroad: Is there anything else that you can point to from study abroad that changed the way you think?

DR: I didn’t take art history classes in Vienna, but I went to every museum that I could from the Kunsthistorisches (Art History) Museum to the Tate in London and everything in between. I went to Venice a lot because you could sleep on the overnight train, get into Venice in the morning, and you’d have a weekend of Italian food. I could go from museum to museum to cathedral to church, and along the way I might stop off at Padua or Bologna. I got to see so much good art, whether it was in Florence, Venice, Rome, Athens, Milan, Paris, Madrid, London, Amsterdam, or Munich. I would go and look at all the masterworks and just absorb it. I talked to Clarence a lot about art and what was going on in this painting and that painting and what was going on with Klimt when he was using his brightly colored gold on the kiss. Why was that included? Why was it so graphic? What was this challenging? Why was this good art? What was happening for me was that I was connecting a lot of dots around color value composition. I gained an understanding of why one painting or artist was challenging the status quo and advancing the next evolution of art as an expression. I got to see many of the great masterpieces. What I didn’t know at the time was that these museum visits were shaping my own sense of what is visually beautiful.

IES Abroad: Did this perspective impact your approach to work?

DR: When I started to do design work for products under the 365 label at Whole Foods, I realized I was tapping into this tremendous experience of visual information regarding balance, color, and composition. Whether packaging was designed in Europe or the United States, whether the product was a cereal box, a box of soymilk, or a tray of frozen enchiladas, it had to have visual appeal. I ended up overseeing those designs because I had a strong sense of what was going to be visually appealing and ultimately successful. In the early days, the 365 logo was much more brightly saturated and appealing to the eye and it was given awards for design. I never did that actual graphic design, but I worked with designers to refine the packaging presentation and to keep a sense of continuity among categories of products. I was really passionate about making sure the label was appealing. Today, I oversee package design for OCHO Candy and it, too, has won awards for design. I’m certainly not an artist or a designer. But the work I’ve collaborated on is the work of a guy who was fortunate enough to spend time admiring great art.

After a long and impactful career in medicine, retiring as Associate Dean of the University of California San Diego (UCSD) School of Medicine is only one of Dr. Ruth Covell’s many lifetime achievements. Others include founding the Academic Geriatric Resource Center within the UCSD Health System, establishing The Skaggs School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences at UCSD, creating “Introduction to the Health Care System” course required of all UCSD medical students, and helping to found San Ysidro Health Center and Community Health Improvement Partners. Dr. Covell is an active board member for the Epilepsy Foundation, Project Concern International, and Mental Health America among others. She partially credits her transformative year in Vienna in 1955-56 for instilling in her the confidence to take on any initiative and talk to anyone, of any background, in any situation, a skill she has applied throughout her professional career and personal life. Sixty years after studying abroad, Ruth reflects on her decision to study in Vienna and see the world.

IES Abroad: How did you choose to study abroad in Vienna, and was it unusual for a woman to study abroad in 1955?

Ruth Covell: Going on the IES Abroad program was probably the most important decision I have ever made. It opened the world to me and gave me a "one up" in sophistication and self-confidence. It was unusual for anybody, not just women, to study abroad in 1955. It was a big deal to cross the country and take a ship to Europe. I didn’t know anybody else who was studying abroad, versus nowadays, when students are encouraged to take flight and have many options – with IES programs still among the best. I was very close to my grandfather – his favorite of 28 grandchildren. He traveled all the time, and planted the travel bug in me. So, when I saw an ad for IES Abroad in the Stanford Daily to study and travel in Europe for a year for less than it cost to be at Stanford, I thought, “Wow! Here’s my chance!” I was already studying German as a pre-med, so it all fit and sounded fantastic!

IES Abroad: What are one or two very special memories you hold from your time in Vienna?

RC: My best memories were of the friends I made. Many of my memories are related to it being a post-war era. Being in Vienna for the reopening of the Opera House after it had been destroyed in World War II was very special. The opening performance, Beethoven’s only opera, Fidelio, was broadcast into the street. All the streets leading toward the Opera House were packed with people listening for as far as you could see. The occupation of Vienna ended several weeks before we arrived, and virtually nothing in Vienna was rebuilt until after the occupation. The entire city was in a time warp. We saw a lot of bombed out buildings. The Amalienbad, Vienna’s public swimming pool, didn‘t have a roof while we were there. But it did have a wave pool where you could surf every hour and swimming substituted for taking a bath! The city was so poor and cold. It was difficult and expensive to get coal. This didn’t mean people weren’t having a good time. We frequented a little gasthaus in our neighborhood and chatted with one another and the locals and enjoyed life. We felt like we were part of the community.

IES Abroad: What were some of the challenges and opportunities that you faced while studying abroad and how did you make the most of them?

RC: I never thought of this as a challenge. In retrospect, I didn’t have much money but didn’t seem to inhibit me from doing anything. The biggest opportunity was being immersed in a different culture and being exposed to music and the arts in a way I hadn’t before. I was already a self-starter, from the age of two when I told my mother I would be a doctor. When I left for Vienna, my parents were living in the Philippines, and I hadn’t seen them in a year and a half. My sense of self-confidence increased while in Vienna when I was able to see what I could accomplish on my own. I saw that I could relate to other people with very different backgrounds, who were speaking a different language and had different customs, different historical backgrounds. I knew this was something I would do the rest of my life. I loved seeing how much the Austrians enjoyed life, despite the enormous adversity they had endured. The resiliency of this entire nation was quite remarkable after what they had been through in the war.

The extensive travel study trips were a kind of exposure to the world that I knew was out there, but it was quite different to actually experience that in person. And to this day, that is why I travel. I have visited over 80 countries. You take away something very different from being on the ground rather than reading about it or seeing it on CNN. I think every student should travel abroad somewhere and get out of their comfort zone.

IES Abroad: What skills that you developed during study abroad have you applied to your career in medicine and to your many avocations outside your professional career?

RC: The ability to be completely independent, to not be afraid of any situation, and to talk anybody. I worked regularly in the ER at the University of Chicago sub-interning my senior year. As a result, I met many of the gang members on the Southside of Chicago. I would not allow the police to be in the treatment room when I was suturing their wounds because I felt they aggravated the situation. It got to the point that some of these gang members would ask for me when they came to the ER. My name got known around the neighborhood, and I felt safer on the streets, which I’m sure was just folly on my part. I could deal with just about anybody, no doubt in part as a result of fending for myself for a year at IES. 

IES Abroad: To what country or countries will you encourage your grandchildren to study abroad and why?

RC: Asia is very important, and I would recommend study abroad there to anyone. My grandchildren have already spent much time there, so I concentrate on introducing them to Europe and its history, literature, music, and art with some emphasis on Italy (and of course Ireland!).  European culture is still very relevant to our own country. Understanding the roots of our civilization – European and indeed world history and geography is critical for an educated person and is brought to life and greatly enhanced by in depth travel. I’ve enjoyed all my travels, so it is hard to choose a favorite.

After developing a passion for international travel while volunteering in Peru and Thailand during high school, Lauren Kolodny went on to study abroad in Barcelona as an International Relations major at Brown University. Interested in the role of technology in economic development, Lauren launched a non-profit while still in college to bring alternatives to firewood cookstoves to communities in Tanzania. Upon graduation, Lauren moved to New Delhi, India, to work with the Clinton Foundation on clean technology partnerships and became the youngest member to serve on the Board of Trustees at Brown University. Seeking to explore her interest in technology further, Lauren returned to the U.S. to work in product marketing at Google, before transitioning to her current role supporting startups and entrepreneurs as Principal at Aspect Ventures. Read on to find out how the global perspective she developed abroad has contributed to her success and what she’s planning next.

IES Abroad: Why did you decide to study abroad in Barcelona? Had you traveled much growing up or studied abroad previously?

Lauren Kolodny: I grew up in San Diego and spent a fair bit of time traveling in Mexico as a kid. I think the proximity to Mexico really made me curious about other cultures and international travel from a very young age. That curiosity led me to seek out opportunities to spend time abroad in high school. I managed to convince my parents – through a fairly well researched PowerPoint presentation – to let me do volunteer programs in Peru and Thailand after my junior and senior years of high school. Those experiences really opened up my world and gave me an insatiable desire for international travel. I ended up studying International Relations at Brown.

When it came time to choose a study abroad program, my priorities were to get to know another region of the world and improve my Spanish. Spain was the obvious choice since I’d already spent a little time in South America and Mexico. I’d heard fabulous things about Barcelona: beautiful coastal city, great art and culture, easy access to the rest of Europe, fun night life. It was really a no brainer. The one thing I didn’t totally internalize was the prevalence of the Catalan language in Catalonia. But I spoke my fair share of Spanish and had an amazing time.

IES Abroad: What are some of the most influential memories from your time in Barcelona?

LK: My experiences were, first and foremost, colored by the opportunity to meet interesting people with really diverse backgrounds and get to know them through the process of exploring a foreign environment together for the first time. As for some specific memories, I remember loving the IES Abroad orientation where we took a weekend trip through Catalonia. We visited the medieval town of Girona, explored the beaches and surrealist museums of Cadaqués, crossed the Pyrenees mountains into France - I remember feeling as though my European history and literature classes were coming alive.

In Barcelona itself, I loved strolling through the Gothic Quarter and stumbling upon a new gallery or cafe. I would often hit up the Boqueria, an open air market in the city center, for its incredibly fresh produce and cheese, and I would host dinner parties using all local ingredients. And I loved spending time at Parc Güell and at the other Gaudi installations, philosophizing with my friends about what the heck he must have been thinking.

IES Abroad: In college you started a non-profit organization offering alternatives to firewood cookstoves in East Africa. How did that come about?

LK: I mentioned I majored in International Relations at Brown, but my focus was really around the role of technology in economic development. I was particularly interested in the ways in which technology – both basic and advanced – could help accelerate economic development in the developing world. Through my research and courses, I was shocked to learn that millions of people in Sub-Saharan Africa develop severe or fatal illness every year due to inhaling the smoke from firewood cookstoves. Furthermore, women and children spend significant time collecting firewood everyday that could be spent on income generation and education. In some regions, women and children are also victim to rape and attack when they’re out collecting firewood. It occurred to me that a simple alternative to firewood cookstoves could help address a number of these issues. I put together a team and built biogas digesters and solar cookers throughout the Kilimanjaro region of Tanzania. We partnered with some local organizations and trained them in building the technology so they could teach their communities how to construct and use the stoves more widely. It was a trying experience and I decided to pursue other things after graduation, but I will say that my prior experiences living abroad gave me a comfort in navigating all of the ambiguity that we faced in this effort.

IES Abroad: How did your study abroad prepare you to work for the Clinton Foundation on Clean Tech Partnership in New Delhi, India?

LK: My time living in Barcelona for a summer got me excited about the idea of living and working in a foreign country after college graduation. I developed a confidence during my time in Spain and elsewhere that made me think I could handle and enjoy the unknown of another country for a longer period of time. Right after college, I moved to New Delhi, India, to work with the Clinton Foundation on accelerating the development of utility scale renewable energy through partnerships with technology companies, the government, and finance institutions. While I faced an entirely new set of challenges during my time in India, I was far more prepared to navigate those challenges because of my past experiences abroad.

IES Abroad: When Brown University created its young alumni trustee position, you were elected as the first and youngest trustee of the Corporation. Were there lessons learned from your study abroad and foreign work assignment that were valuable as you held this leadership position?

LK: The variety of experiences that I had working, studying, and traveling abroad certainly equipped me with a much more global perspective that had a lot of relevance on the Board at Brown. I think it goes without saying that in today’s world any top tier university needs to have a strong global presence and strategy to maintain relevance. There were many conversations on the Board about Brown’s role internationally that I felt more equipped to contribute to because of my experiences. I think what was even more important, though, was that each of my experiences abroad gave more and more confidence to navigate seemingly intimidating situations. While the Board of Trustees at Brown was an entirely different type of intimidating situation – I was a 22 year old without a lot of work experience surrounded by extremely successful professionals at the top of their games – I think that confidence in myself still translated and allowed me to be successful in that role.

Interestingly, one of the people who I found most impressive (and initially a little intimidating) was a GP at Accel Partners, Theresia Gouw, who I ended up working with on a number of projects for Brown, including a redevelopment of career services. She went on to found Aspect Ventures where I now get to work with her everyday.

IES Abroad: After the Clinton Foundation, you worked for Google in product marketing before going on to earn your MBA from Stanford and then transitioning into investments. Tell us about your career journey and ultimately why you decided to go into investing?

LK: I had a great experience in India, but I was the only person from my team on the ground and was learning on the fly. As I began to think about next opportunities, I knew I wanted an experience where I could continue to explore my interest in technology more broadly, build on my experience in partnership development, and learn from great managers and peers. Google was a fantastic place to do those things. I spent most of time there in product marketing for the Google at Work team and led the go to market strategy for a number of new products and features including Google Drive.

My first real lens into venture capital came from my interactions with Theresia on the Brown Board while I was still in India. I remember thinking how awesome it was that she got to help so many great entrepreneurs across lots of industries to build exciting businesses. As I got more exposure to the early stage startup ecosystem in the Bay Area, venture capital became increasingly interesting to me.

When I got into Stanford Graduate School of Business, I used my time there to explore my interests in entrepreneurship and venture capital. As I was gearing up to graduate, I learned that Theresia was partnering with Jennifer Fonstad, another very successful venture capital investor from Draper Fisher Jurvetson, to found Aspect Ventures. The opportunity to join Aspect as the third member of the investing team was an incredible alignment of my interests—investing in great entrepreneurs solving hard problems with technology, learning from very accomplished mentors, and helping to build a new organization from the ground up.

IES Abroad: What has been one of your most satisfying accomplishments to date?

LK: One of my most satisfying accomplishments to date has been helping my partners, Jennifer Fonstad and Theresia Gouw, to build Aspect Ventures. Even though we invest in startups, we are, in many ways, a startup ourselves. As a collective team, we have a lot of experience in venture capital investing, which we’re combining with a fresh perspective to build a new kind of venture capital firm – with a culture that’s more akin to our portfolio companies than traditional venture. I’m really proud of what we’ve built to date in our team and in our partnerships with awesome portfolio companies like Chime, The Muse, Dejavuto, and Hobnob.

As I think about where I’ve come from, I feel very lucky for the path I’ve taken thus far. It would have been very hard for me to predict ten years ago during my summer in Barcelona that I’d be sitting in San Francisco investing in startup companies today, but every step of my path has been an additive learning experience and helped to define what’s come next. I’m pretty confident that my most satisfying professional accomplishments are still ahead of me at Aspect. Talk to me again in ten years, and we’ll see.

IES Abroad: Why do you feel studying abroad is important for students today? 

LK: Studying abroad is extremely valuable for students today. We all know the world is increasingly interconnected, but that doesn’t mean we all live the same way. I think the best future leaders across industries will be the people who have an understanding for diverse perspectives and cultures. Silicon Valley is a great example of this. I won’t deny that Silicon Valley is a bit of a bubble, but people in this community are building technology that is used globally. I think the companies here that will be the most successful long-term are the ones that can figure out how to build products that are accessible and useful for people all over the world.

David Wild jet-setted to London in 1983 in order to keep tabs on his then girlfriend studying at Oxford, but what he discovered was a rich literary and music scene that would help launch his future career. Indulging in the British music scene, David skipped class to go to record stores and attended almost the entire Elvis Costello Punch the Clock Tour of England. With a passion for music and writing, David landed his first job as an on-the-road journalist writing reviews for shows in London for college newspapers. With this foundation, David went on to work for Esquire and Rolling Stone, where he remains a Contributing Editor. Today, David primarily writes for television, working with celebrities and writing for awards shows including The GRAMMYs, The Emmy Awards, The CMAs, and The Academy Awards. In addition to being a two-time Emmy nominee, David has authored numerous New York Times Best-Selling books and has contributed to CNN’s Emmy-winning series, The Sixties, The Seventies, and The Eighties. Read on to find out how studying abroad helped lay the foundation for David’s career and why getting out of his comfort zone continues to be one of the most valuable lessons he learned in London.

IES Abroad: As a student at Cornell University, what motivated you to study abroad and why did you choose London?

David Wild: My college girlfriend got into Oxford for the year. I didn’t know that she was going to get in, and I thought, “She is very attractive. I had better go to England.” It was really self-preservation. Secondarily, there was the desire to have the educational experience of being abroad: a) I’m a music fanatic and wanted to spend more time in London, and b) it was as close as I could get to Oxford without having applied there. It’s true, I spent a lot of time going back and forth between Oxford and London. But I remember I studied Dickens, and I remember also studying Shakespeare, because occasionally my then girlfriend would get busy so I would spend a weekend at Stratford-upon-Avon seeing Shakespeare. All around, it was a very good literary experience for me.

IES Abroad: Did you have an 'ah ha' moment during study abroad that critically changed the way you think?

DW: Relatively-speaking, I think I was probably an intellectually curious, smart kid, but I had absolutely no living skills whatsoever. I was a spoiled kid who had gone to prep school and didn’t necessarily know how to live in any other way that wasn’t a regimented, organized world. So when I got there, it was totally different. I have very strong memories of the living situation. A lot of it, for me, was having to get my own apartment. I have vague memories that maybe some of the others lived together in groups, but I lived by myself the whole time. I remember my first apartment in Earl’s Court area. The bathroom was in the hall, which was an educational experience with a bunch of strange people. And I remember, it was obviously pre-cell phone, just trying to get the coins to make a phone call home from a train station. I ended up making a British friend and living in his house eventually. But I had to find my own apartment and get my own utilities at the outset, and considering the British system, that was crazy. I grew up a lot during that time in London because I had to, because I literally didn’t know how to do anything.

Beyond that, I remember the classes on Dickens were great. I think we read the entire body of Dickens’ work. I learned a lot and enjoyed it. But in my mind, it’s all mixed up, the classes and the sneaking out to record stores and going to concerts. I think I managed to ditch enough classes to go on the entire Elvis Costello Punch the Clock Tour of England. That was one of the highlights, and I told Elvis that when I got to know him. I went to like fourteen straight gigs that semester. I was also there for the Everly Brothers Reunion at the Royal Albert Hall. So, a lot of my memories, the reading and the music, are mixed up, and that’s the way it is with me and life.

IES Abroad: Did studying in London impact your career, particularly early on as you got started writing for Esquire and then moved over to Rolling Stone?

DW: Definitely. In fact, I was reviewing for some sort of conglomerate of college papers. I was sending my reviews of shows in London then, and so it was my first experience as a roving, globe-trotting journalist. I reviewed a lot of shows for a number of college papers, and I got real experience being a writer on the road, a journalist up for hire. I’m sure it helped. I think it made me feel more comfortable anywhere I was thrown. Now, I’m mainly a TV writer for all these event shows. Like last night I was working with Justin Timberlake. Today, I am meeting with a movie star, and I have to write something for a TV show for him this weekend. That’s mainly what I do now. But for the first fifteen years of my career, I was mainly a journalist. Even what I do now – I write the GRAMMYs – it involves being thrown into situations, finding a way to be comfortable, and making others comfortable. That is the sort of thing I learned a lot about back in those days, just getting out of your comfort zone. To me, that’s what it was. I guess I wasn’t an idiot, but my comfort zone was very limited. I had been coddled to a certain degree, which was great for me, it was a nice supportive environment, but at least the way I experienced study abroad, definitely living on my own, I had to do a lot of growing up at that point.

IES Abroad: What has been one of your most fulfilling assignments? 

DW: On CNN’s The Eighties series, the music show is coming up. It is interesting because I did think about being in England then. When Tom Hanks and his company Playtone asked me to be involved in The Sixties, I was like, “Guys, you’ve got to get me to the Seventies.” Just age-wise, I don’t remember the sixties. Then we got to the seventies, and I was much more in my comfort zone because that was my high school years. But the eighties, the early eighties, I experienced in London. I remember seeing Wham! on TV early on, and I remember one of my favorite groups of all time, The Smiths, I remember very vividly seeing them early on. I caught the post-funk, post New Wave British music scene because I happened to be there and saw as many shows as I could.

But the most fulfilling assignments are those when you can reach a little bit outside yourself. For example, being the head writer for the Tribute to Heroes telethon after 9/11, that was a big experience. I have been a part of a number of those events that have raised millions of dollars for important causes. I actually sort of came into TV doing that, and then gradually realized that I cannot not get paid all the time. I volunteered my time for the Emmy nominations, and now everyone asks me to do all their charity events. And I was like, “Guys, if I am going to become a writer, I have to take some shows where I get paid.” And that stuff comes up, like this morning at 7am I got a call from the publicist of one of the biggest actors in the world, and because they had seen me last night at this event helping Justin Timberlake, they said, “Can you help X today?” They said, “This actor worked with you, but you probably don’t remember when,” and I realized that it was at an event 10-15 years ago. But all these charity events end up living on because you generate not just a lot of money but a lot of goodwill in the world.

IES Abroad: Despite being Jewish, in 2001, you were awarded the Muslim Public Policy Award with Cat Stevens, and in 2015, you wrote for Pope Francis’s Mass event at Madison Square Garden. In what ways has your work transcended religious barriers?

DW: In truth, religion has never come up in any of those circumstances. In the case of the Muslim Public Policy Award, it was for a documentary when Yusuf (Cat Stevens) decided to return to public life to a certain extent. I was the interviewer because we talked music and spiritual journeys and everything. We are still in touch. We tweeted to each other a few days ago, and we have always remained in touch. We actually did those interviews in London. I remember in-between interviews, at one point, I snuck over to try to find some of my old London apartments. And in the case of the Pope, well, I have fallen into this very weird world where people need to speak at any sort of gathering, and they often need someone to help in different ways. I was writing jokes for Justin Timberlake at the same time that I was working Martin Sheen’s kick-off to the Pope’s Mass in Madison Square Garden. I started out as a journalist. You start out and sort of explore your own voice. But then I found out that if I have a gift, it is that I can listen to people or know people’s persona and then write to their voice. That is the feedback that I get for why people hire me, that I’m a good listener. I try to capture the way someone is good. I remember years ago, I went to speak at Berkeley, and I had just written a Christmas special for Christina Aguilera, and someone asked, “How can you write the Christmas stuff?” and I was like, “Irving Berlin wrote White Christmas.” I remember almost everyone on that Christmas special was Jewish. Religion has never been a big issue for me. It is really about helping people, and you work with different people in different ways.

IES Abroad: What excites you the most about your work?

DW: I like the range of it. It gets incredibly complicated to balance everything and never knowing what’s coming next. Everything gets complicated, but I do like the range of it. I go on one of the big comedy podcasts nearly every week, The Adam Carolla Show, and the reason I do things like that or go on a lot of TV shows is that I like the idea of keeping stuff agile, in terms of jokes or having a point of view. In TV, that has served me well. My first year with LL Cool J doing The GRAMMYs, the first year he hosted, Whitney Houston died the night before. He was friends with her, the executive producer was friends with her, I knew her a little bit, but we had already come in that day, rehearsed the show, done the monologue, done all this stuff and were fixed. He called me at 5pm and said, “David, tell me we are locked and loaded because I’m going to go to bed to prepare for tomorrow.” About 20 minutes later, we got word that she had died, and I had to call him and say, “We’re unlocked, and we’re are unloaded.” I had to write a whole new open, and I needed to get it to him. And that actually had another religious moment. He loved the new open, and he called me and said, “I love it, but I think we need to write in a prayer.” I was like, “Wow, I don’t particularly write a lot of prayers,” but we did it. We made it sort of secular and as universally welcoming as possible, and it ended up being perfect.

I think that’s what I’ve learned – I learned it in London, I’ve tried to continue to learn it ever since, I probably learned it going away to prep school a little bit, and definitely going away to college in general – to try to listen to other points of view and then pull it together and incorporate it into whatever you are doing. In that instance, a lot of people, the network and others, they said, “Tell him no prayer.” But what I have learned, like working with Yusef and Islam and doing the documentary, I think at least at a professional level, is that I’m good at trying to hear other points of view and take what’s best of them. And that is probably a lot of what international study is about – it’s finding out what you think is foreign is actually just part of a bigger picture that you should take a good look at.

IES Abroad: What’s next? Do you have any upcoming projects that you can tell us about?

DW: Nothing in particular to brag about. A lot of these things are annual, like the CMAs or The GRAMMYs. Then there are books that I do when there is time, when the spirit moves me. Some of that is writing, like working with Brad Paisley on his book that we co-authored, and writing with CeeLo for his book. I did a book on my own called The Showrunners about TV. I’ve written a few books about TV shows, like the Seinfeld book. I did some Friends books that became very popular because the cast went on Oprah and promoted it the day the show ended. I’m just a writer. It’s funny, when The Sixties started on CNN, they called me and said, “What do you want for your description because we don’t know whether to put best-selling author or journalist or television writer.” This comes up a lot. There’s people that know me from having been on TV. There’s people that know me from being on the podcast. And there’s people that have no idea, I just sound familiar. So, when they asked what to call me in The Sixties, I said, “Just call me ‘Writer’.” Because that’s really what it mostly comes down to. And I was very happy because in the British Invasion episode, I think Tom Hanks and I were the first two speakers. His name came up with “Actor” and mine said “Writer – David Wild”, and I thought, “I like that. I’m in excellent company there.”    

IES Abroad: Why do you feel studying abroad is important for today’s students?

DW: The world has gotten a lot smaller in certain ways, the connections have gotten a lot more complicated in certain ways, and the world had gotten a lot scarier, or at least we are more aware of what is going on. But none of that precludes the fact that we are better off knowing more about each other. We are better when we connect with one another, when we actually know something based on personal experience as opposed to reading someone’s version of history or life. It is invaluable. It’s a big world, and so eventually, people should experience some of it.

Despite playing the violin since she was six-years-old, Amelia “Amie” Roosevelt, great granddaughter to Franklin D. Roosevelt, was adamant that ‘professional musician’ was not the career path she wanted for herself. At Swarthmore College, Amie majored in German literature and Religion with the intent to pursue a career in academia. But music continued to be a large part of her life, even during her study abroad experience in Freiburg where she was a member of the University of Freiburg’s Academic Orchestra. Eventually, she realized music was what she wanted to do. Now a professional violinist, Amie shares how her experience in Freiburg influenced her approach to music and paved the way for her return to Germany for work.

IES Abroad: How did you decide to study abroad and why did you choose Freiburg?

Amelia Roosevelt: I had gone to a music festival in Chautauqua, New York, and I immediately made friends with a young woman from Germany. We played in the orchestra together and lived in the same housing. She started making friends with all of the opera singers from around the world because they wanted to practice their German with her. So, I met all of these opera singers who were speaking all of these different languages. At that point, I had never been to Europe. I had taken some Spanish and French in school, but I had never really thought about languages as being fun and exciting. Through this atmosphere at Chautauqua, learning German was really fun, and I got the idea to study German in college. My new friend gave me advice on where to study in Germany and mentioned that Freiburg was a really nice place. In fact, she was going to study at the university there. I decided to enroll in the IES Abroad program because I wanted to transfer the credits back to my college, Swarthmore. The combination of my having a good friend in Freiburg and IES Abroad having a great program made Freiburg a good choice. 

IES Abroad: How did you grow during your time in Freiburg?

AR: I didn’t realize that I had a good ear for languages. I had not been particularly good at languages studying in high school. It makes a huge difference to be immersed in it. My housing was arranged by IES Abroad, and I had an American roommate, Christa, whose mother was German and only spoke German at home. She and I decided to only speak German to one another. I really didn’t speak English much during the whole time I was in Freiburg. We were in a Catholic dorm with other students and spoke only German with them, and I only spoke German with my musician friends. When I spoke with my parents later that spring, they commented that I had a German accent!

IES Abroad: What are some of your greatest memories from your time in Freiburg?

AR: One of them was living in the dorm with other German speakers. The dorm was divided between the women’s and the men’s section, but there wasn’t enough room on the women’s side, so Christa and I took an attic room on the men’s side. We ate in the kitchen with all of these guys. It was really fun sharing our meals with them. Many of them were theology students, Lutheran and Catholic. The other great memory was playing in the Academic Orchestra, which was the University of Freiburg’s orchestra. It wasn’t a music school orchestra, but it was all of these incredibly talented musicians who were studying mostly other things at the university, like me. It was a really great part of my experience there.

IES Abroad: You come from one of America’s most famous families. Especially given the critical role your great grandfather, Franklin D. Roosevelt played in WWII, upon hearing your name, how did the Europeans react to you?

AR: I tend to go through life playing that down. In a lot of cases, it really wasn’t noticed. My name is a valid Dutch name, so Europeans don’t assume that I’m part of a presidential family. They just assume that I am an American with Dutch heritage. In the couple of instances when I was asked, some people would express some disappointment that FDR wasn’t tougher in negotiations with Stalin. It was interesting hearing perspectives of FDR as a post-World War II, post Hitler negotiator. Most had much less perspective about what FDR did in the States, what he did after the Great Depression, or what the New Deal was. Their perspective was the post WWII map more than anything. Sometimes, I’d meet people whose parents or grandparents were active in the resistance. They had great respect for FDR and what he did to motivate Americans to try to do something about the War and end the Holocaust.

IES Abroad: You majored in German Literature and Religion at Swarthmore but also studied music. Tell us about your breadth of interests. Did the classes you took in Freiburg influence you?

AR: Yes, they did. When I was in Freiburg, I was playing a lot. I played in the Academic Orchestra, a string quartet, and in a festival. I didn’t take regular music lessons for that semester, which was really the first time since I was six years old when I didn’t have weekly lessons. This was good because I spent more time living there. And, of course, it took quite a bit of time to do the German homework and the theology work in German. It would have been a socially less fun time for me had I been taking music lessons. That was a good break from my trajectory that I really enjoyed.

The theology classes I took were very eye opening. When I choose my major of Religion, I was really interested in comparative religions and these different systems of beliefs. I was also interested in anthropology and philosophy. Religion became a way to deal with all of these questions and interesting cultural differences. The religion students at the University of Freiburg thought that I was an unusual phenomenon. In Germany, especially at that time, you didn’t study comparative religion from a distant standpoint – trying to understand it from an intellectual perspective. You studied religion because you were religious and you wanted to become a pastor or an important theologian. It was all about your belief. There was no other student in my classes who wasn’t a real believer. It was an interesting perspective coming from this East Coast, private, totally intellectual college where people ponder the different religions. That was completely new to me! 

IES Abroad: When you first arrived in Freiburg, did you have any career goals in mind?

AR: I played the violin since I was six years old, was very serious about it all through high school, and had some experiences at the conservatory level while in high school. I spent a lot of my youth thinking that this was tough and ultra-competitive. People were getting tendonitis and were not really having a good time because they were practicing too much. I tried not to go the professional musician route because I felt that it was more interesting and fulfilling to do more academic things. I was thinking that I would do graduate work in German literature or religion, so I kept trying to focus on those things. I finally realized, after trying very hard not to become a professional musician, that this is what I wanted to do with my life.

IES Abroad: In what ways did study abroad impact your career path and approach to music?

AR: Any experience that you have outside of being a musician helps your musicianship. It was really refreshing to be in a culture where classical music is part of the culture. I feel that Europeans approach music in a larger way. They consider music to be part of a bigger culture. They think it is related to painting. They think it is related to literature. They think it is related to language. This is probably the biggest thing that I got from studying there. The language that the composer speaks comes through in the composition. There are German groups who play a lot of German music, French groups playing a lot of French music, and Italians playing a lot of Italian music. Everyone will acknowledge, “We like Italian music and will play Italian music, but those Italians have something in their language that helps them play it better.” Especially French versus German where the languages are so different, they acknowledge that connection between the language and actual music making.

IES Abroad: You have played with several German ensembles. How did your improved German language skills and opportunities to explore music while in Freiburg impact these engagements?

AR: It was very important. I lived in Cologne from 1998 to 2001 and had studied Baroque violin in Amsterdam from 1997, traveling often to Cologne where I was part of a regular chamber orchestra and a string quartet. Just being quite fluent in German made a huge difference in my ability to feel like a real part of that group. Germans have a very strict code of who you address in the formal and who you address in the informal. For example, in my chamber orchestra, I learned that freelance musicians working together in a group like that you address them in the informal, by their first name. It is important to the bonding process. This is not true if you have a permanent position in an orchestra. Even if you sit next to them and they are the same age, you address them in the formal. My German was subtle enough to understand these differences and what that meant in German society. I was really happy for that.

IES Abroad: How did study abroad influence you personally?

AR: Studying abroad made me realize how great it is to go and live in a different city. I was open to more travel and gained an understanding of how you adjust, how you pick up language, and how you make connections with people in foreign countries. It gave me a lot of confidence. Up to that point, I had had one and a half years of college in a pretty protected environment. I developed confidence just living there and came to appreciate that German students my age were not living in dorms. Rather, they found a room in an apartment. They bought groceries, cooked, and cleaned up after themselves. So when I went the following semester to India, I felt more mature. While some things were scary, I thought that I could handle it. I had skills for handling unusual situations and how to maneuver.

IES Abroad: What is one thing you learned while abroad that remains a constant in your life?

AR: When I studied abroad, I was so enthusiastic about Germany and Europe, in general, and about going to a different culture with a strong music tradition where the people were necessarily deeper. People my age had all grown up with the aftermath of World War II and the consequences of what their country had done, what their leader had done. They were still largely hated by other Europeans. I was taken by how meaningful life was for them and how much they had had to deal with collective war guilt. Also at that time, in the 1980s before the economic boom had happened, there was less materialism, which I really appreciated. They were environmentally very aware. I still think about these issues. The habits and awareness that I got from that time, I still keep.

When I went back to Germany to work, I considered staying in Germany for a long, long time. I decided not to. For me, personally, I learned a lesson. Looking at the many good things as there are about other places, you tend to see your own country’s problems and systems that don’t work. It’s been interesting to me to have idealized the German culture and then realize that everything has its pros and cons. There is no ideal society. It is important to take from other societies what you want and to appreciate them, but for me, it is also important to appreciate here. You can make communities wherever you are and find people you have things in common with. It is important to also find people you DON’T have things in common with and live with them. When I studied in Freiburg, I was still in the idealizing phase. Now that I’m older, I appreciate the culture here despite the fact that I don’t love everything about it.

Growing up in New Hampshire, John Irving (Vienna 1963-64) always felt like he didn’t belong. It wasn’t until studying abroad in Vienna as an auslander (foreigner) that he became comfortable being an outsider. At age 26, John published his first novel, Setting Free the Bears, about two Austrian students in Vienna. A professional wrestler and wrestling coach for many years, John became a full-time writer after the success of his fourth novel, The World According to Garp. In 2000, John won the Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay for The Cider House Rules. He has had ten international bestsellers, and his novels are available in 35 languages. Today, John lives with his wife in Canada and just released his 14^th novel, Avenue of Mysteries. In our interview, John shares how the death of John F. Kennedy and meeting John Steinbeck shaped his time in Vienna, and how the experience influenced his perspective on writing and the world.

IES Abroad: What led you to study abroad in Vienna?

John Irving: In retrospect, I wish I had gone to a Spanish-speaking place exclusively for that junior year abroad experience. Spanish was the language I took for three years in high school, and I already had two years of college Spanish. But I was more interested in German literature, and I had this naive idea that whatever country I went to study in I would become fluent in that language. Not so. I wanted to able to read German literature. I'm totally happy with the experience I had, but now, of course, living in North America, having one child who is fluent in Spanish, writing a novel (which I have) about a Mexican American – well, I wish were fluent in Spanish. Anyway, I said, “No, I'm going to go down the road of German and Vienna.”

Although my German became conversationally pretty good and still is useful, my German never became good enough to read all these heroes of German literature — Thomas Mann, and later, most importantly, Günter Grass. I could never have read them in their German. I remember killing myself as a student in Vienna trying to read The Tin Drum and finally giving up, having to write my dad at home and say, “Send me a copy of the book I can read in English. I'm just dying. I can't read this.” [Carrying around a copy of this book] also was a great way to meet girls. And of course, I had read it in English so I could have conversations with girls I met in Vienna and say, “Yes, of course, it’s a terrific book,” and pretend as if I knew it. It was a perfect way in. Nobody read it. In retrospect, I really wished I'd stayed with the Spanish, but it was one of those decisions you make at 18 or 19 that isn't terribly grounded in the reality of the future.

IES Abroad: How would you describe your experience abroad?

JI: What I loved about Vienna, frankly, was being alone. I've always felt like I don't belong where I'm from or where I live. So, the experience of actually leaving the U.S. for the first time (at that time, it was truly only the second or third time I'd been outside of New England), of actually being a foreigner, of actually being the foreigner, instead of it simply feeling like the years growing up in New Hampshire…I would say to myself, “Boy, do I not belong here. I don't know where I really belong. Am I really from here? I don't feel like I belong here." I feel like I'm standing at a telephoto lens at a distance looking at all these people, and I'm not one of them. I think that's the way a lot of writers feel, that they're not that close to something.

I said, "Now, there's no excuses. I don't have to be apologetic or feel that it is not my fault that I'm the foreigner or the outsider. Being the outsider is what I am.” So, suddenly the experience of being alone (or as the Germans say allein), to be all alone (ganzallein), I thought, “This kind of suits me. This is how it will always be, that you will always feel outside everything else, and people who know you or even know you a little will view you with a certain amount of distance.”

IES Abroad: How do you stay connected with the real world?

JI: If you are writing about an ob-gyn, for example, you have to know what they know. And if you're not an ob-gyn – you haven't been to medical school and you haven’t practiced obstetrical and gynecological surgery – well, you have a lot to learn. I do something else that a lot of writers don't do because I do not write solely from my own experience. I do a lot of writing outside of myself and way outside my own experience and my own country. My first novel, Setting Free the Bears, which was set in Vienna, was about two Austrian students and the history that haunted them. It was a history that was active only in their imaginations because much of it happened before they were born or while they were still too young to know. It is a historical novel about the Nazi and Soviet occupations of Vienna. Well, that wasn't the Vienna I knew. I wasn't one of those students or one of their ancestors.

From the very beginning, my instincts were never to think that my autobiographical experience, which I find kind of boring, or that anything I choose to write are details from my experience. Rather the details are always enhanced, always exaggerated, always taken to extremes – extremes that never happened in my own life. The novel I've just finished, my 14th, Avenue of Mysteries, one chapter is set almost entirely in the Philippines and in Mexico. It is about a Mexican American who was very much an outsider in the circumstances in which he grew up in the south of Mexico.

IES Abroad: What autobiographical details do you draw upon in your novels?

JI: Sure, there's a lot of New England in my novels. There are a lot of recognizable traces of the things that are pertinent to my life, for example, the not knowing of my biological father. But ask my mother if she were alive. She would be the first to tell you I never wrote a word about her. "Who are these mothers?!” She probably would have been angry if I had written about her, but she was vexed that I wrote about these strangers that didn’t resemble her in the slightest. I have invented a number of curious or interesting missing fathers. The most autobiographical thing about my novels is that I do write pretty consistently about what I'm afraid of, what I fear, about what I hope for –  not about what has happened to me, what never happens to me, or what I hope never happens to anyone I love. Terrible things happen in my books. Terrible things have not happened to me.

IES Abroad: Many of your books have an international aspect to them, and you have lived all around the world. Tell us about your interest in ‘the international’. 

I've always had an interest in other countries and other places, and surely the experience of living abroad for the first time, of living in a place where English was not the first language, of feeling the foreignness was an experience that I repeatedly have sought in my life. My middle son was born in Vienna some years after I was a student there. I've lived in Vienna longer at other times. I was writing the screenplay for my first novel that was never made, Setting Free the Bears, when I was living in the war archive looking at film after film after film of Hitler's election campaign and Hitler’s being embraced by the Austrian population when he first rode in the brown Mercedes into Vienna.

I live in Canada full-time because I'm married to a Canadian, and she lived in the U.S. with me for more than 28 years. So, it’s a natural thing for me to be living here. It may be perceived as political. Some people who either know me very well or not so well say, “Well, you picked a good time to leave the United States. I know what you think of the Republicans.” Don't be simplistic. I'm a U.S. citizen. I'll always be a U.S. citizen. I may some years hence be a dual citizen. I'm not making a statement. I'm an international writer. Almost half of my income is in translations. That is not usual for American writers. It is not usual for American writers to write as much outside the U.S. as I already have and repeatedly do. If almost half of my income as a writer is from translations, much more than half of my traveling as a writer for publications is to many of those translation countries. Because of my internationalism as a writer, I need to live in a place like Toronto that has a functioning international airport. I need to get places.

IES Abroad: What were the moments in Vienna that changed your life in the year 1963-64?

JI: Being in Vienna when JFK was killed and seeing the shock and love for him that the Austrians felt was profoundly moving. I remember coming into a local guesthouse/wine house where they knew me. It was a place we often went. I remember walking in there, and one of the waiters was terribly agitated and upset because on this little black and white TV with a little tiny screen by the bar, it was showing this scene of Mrs. Kennedy reaching over the back of the car pulling somebody into the car. It was all very muddled, and the waiter was very agitated. Of course, what the waiter said, I realized later from a student whose German was a little better than mine, was “I’m so sorry. Your President has been shot.” He used a colloquial word, and the word was not president. I took him to mean – this guy who knew me and knew I was American – “Student, student, I’m so sorry,” and it sounds like he said, “Your father has been shot.” I said, “What?” And this other friend who was with me whose German was very good, he said, “No. It’s not your father, its JFK.” And then it was kind of an indelible moment. Typical of me, I made that a better story in a novel, In One Person. It’s all about a bisexual boy in Vienna, not my year in Vienna. 

Another was the crossing with an American ship in the unlikely port of Vienna that took the form of the writer John Steinbeck appearing in Vienna visiting the University of Vienna. There was a class in American literature at the University that IES Abroad students could take. Steinbeck was going to visit the class, and everyone was very excited by that. A little questionnaire was passed among us about our knowledge of Steinbeck. The student who would be assigned to escort Mr. Steinbeck would be not only the student who spoke English, but who had knowledge of Steinbeck. This was shortly after the President was killed and Steinbeck had been in the Soviet Union on a so-called Kennedy goodwill tour. He was one of Kennedy's cultural ambassadors, and he had left the Soviet Union in a great huff. And rightly so, because he felt betrayed by his Russian translators and publishers who had published The Grapes of Wrath without a copyright date as a way of suggesting that the dustbowl period of time and the era in which The Grapes of Wrath was set was a present-day poverty situation in the U.S. Much to his horror, Steinbeck discovered that The Grapes of Wrath was being used as anti-American propaganda.

And then Steinbeck knew Kennedy personally, or Kennedy had appointed him personally as a cultural ambassador, so he was in an agitated state of mind. I was very excited to meet him and was appointed as his escort because I had demonstrated that I knew more about Steinbeck and had read everything by Steinbeck, more than the other students. Well, why wouldn't I be the Steinbeck authority? I was the only American in the class. Steinbeck realized I was American after about 10 minutes or so, and his wife was really nice to me, but he was pretty gruff. Understandably, the poor guy had been betrayed where he'd been, and now, he's talking very patiently to one of the nice Austrian students in this class in American literature at the University of Vienna, but as it turned out, I'm an American. So, he's angry about the fact that he'd come all this way to talk to this class, and he's talking to another American! I was totally intimidated. He was a very scary guy, and it didn’t work out very well. The things I remember were these kinds of moments of shock and horror.

IES Abroad: Were there professors in Vienna who made an impact on you?

JI: Certainly, there was one teacher at IES Abroad who was famous for the friendships he made with students. He was a demanding teacher but a wonderful teacher – Professor Mowatt. I took everything that Mowatt taught – everything, even things I had virtually no interest in. Everywhere I was a student, when I had a good teacher, I would do this. I had no interest in Greek moral philosophy – none – but Eddy Mowatt taught it so that I would be interested. We attached ourselves to Mowatt, and we listened to Mowatt about courses offered at the University. I had good advice early on that basically informed me that it didn’t really matter what your major was or what you said you were most interested in. What mattered was you went where the teachers were. So, I did that. I did that with the German courses. Everyone was pushing to get to the next level or grouping, but I found one teacher who was teaching German, and I loved her better than the other teachers, so I simply stayed with her.

I was lucky all through my school years in every year in school. I wasn’t very happy in Pittsburgh, but there was one teacher who was very good to me. I sort of hooked myself to him, and you keep contact with people like that. Professor Mowatt was the guy in Vienna, and there often wasn’t more than one. In my college years, there was one guy my sophomore year at University of New Hampshire – a writer in residence – who gave me some good advice. I almost bailed out at the last minute on going to Vienna. This is an interesting story. Like most people that age, I had sort of met somebody, and I had a crush on her. I thought, “Oh, go to Europe for a year and lose this girl. I don’t know, maybe nothing is going to come of this.” This was late. I was already at Harvard summer school taking a crash German language lab class in preparation for Vienna because I had no German. So, I wrote to the University of New Hampshire, and I said, “I can’t go to Europe. I met this girl. I really like this girl. What do I have to do to get back into the University of New Hampshire and not take a leave of absence and do my junior year at UNH instead?” I’ll never forget what he wrote. It was pivotal in my life. He said “Go to Europe! It’ll be good for your writing. Go to Europe. Melancholy is good for writers.” I thought it had a certain romance to it. I thought, “Oh, being unhappy for a year, that’s cool!” We still correspond. He’s a great guy.  

IES Abroad: Many of your novels have a refrain. What would your refrain be for your year in Vienna – to communicate to your classmates or future study abroad students?

JI: I had fun. I can’t imagine what my perspective on writing or the world would be if I hadn’t gotten so outside myself. I’m not saying this as a criticism, honestly, when I say that most American writers are not international. This is just a truthful observation. It’s not a criticism. I’m just saying that in what they write about there’s a long tradition of Americans not venturing far from home as writers. We still hear about it, too much I think, the notion of “The Great American Novel.” I say, “Why American?” I just want to write a great novel. I think it is parochial to think of the novel as necessarily elevated by having the word “American” in front of it. I don’t find that elevating. My dad, who was a huge influence on me, was a Slavic Studies major at Harvard. He brought Russian history, Russian language into Phillips Exeter Academy for the first time. It was my dad who said, “Oh, you have to read Dostoevsky, you have to read Dickens, you have to read Tolstoy.” The reason I said no, I want to go to a German speaking place was because I worshiped Thomas Mann and soon would idolize, as I still do, Günter Grass. I can’t imagine myself without that perspective. The experience of imagining the world beyond the limitations of your childhood and the part of the country you come from, I think, is pretty important.

Having studied Italian for three years, Kendall Turner decided to study abroad in Milan, Italy, to test out her skills in the real world. Through the experience, she became more fearless, independent, and confident. Upon receiving her J.D. from Stanford University, Kendall clerked with U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice Stephen Breyer and the Honorable Merrick B. Garland (President Obama’s U.S. Supreme Court nominee). She also co-founded Proyecto Villa Nueva, a nonprofit focused on educating children in Tegucigalpa, Honduras, and she just completed a book on money management for young women. Today, she is an associate at the law firm Jenner & Block. In our interview, Kendall shares how the skills she learned abroad made her clerkships a little less intimidating and tells us about the inspiration behind her nonprofit.

IES Abroad: What motivated you to study in Milan? Had you traveled much previously, or was this your first experience abroad?

Kendall Turner: I had been studying Italian for three years in college and wanted a chance to take my language skills for a spin in the real world. Although most of my classmates who studied Italian went to Rome, I was drawn to Milan because it was less touristy. I had traveled a bit abroad before—I’d been to England, Italy, and Austria when I was younger—but this was my first extended stay abroad by myself.

IES Abroad: What are one or two of your most impactful study abroad memories?

KT: I remember having to do a presentation to my whole group at the end of my time abroad—I was so afraid of public speaking! But the experience helped me learn that sometimes the fear doesn’t go away; you just have to do things while being afraid.

IES Abroad: How did you change most during your time in Milan?

KT: I became more fearless, more independent. I felt (and continue to feel) confident that I could travel happily on my own.

IES Abroad: After receiving your J.D. from Stanford University, you had a clerkship with Associate Justice Stephen Breyer of the U.S. Supreme Court. You also clerked for the Honorable Merrick B. Garland (President Obama’s U.S. Supreme Court nominee). Were there any skills learned or developed abroad that you were able to draw upon in these experiences?

KT: Both Justice Breyer and Judge Garland are wonderful, wonderful bosses. Both can also be a bit intimidating when you’re fresh out of law school. But my time studying abroad in Milan—along with other experiences I’ve had throughout my life—helped me learn that I could face them, even if I was a little afraid of them. 

IES Abroad: In addition to your interest in law, you co-founded Proyecto Villa Nueva, a nonprofit in Honduras focused on educating children in marginal urban barrios in Tegucigalpa. Tell us about the organization and the inspiration behind it.

KT: PVN provides scholarships to students in Colonia Villanueva—a barrio in Tegucigalpa, Honduras—that follow them from fourth grade through the end of their education (provided that they maintain their academic performance).  We also support teacher committees by providing them with leadership training, professional development workshops, and lessons in financial management. Our work helps keep students in school and enhance their educational experience. I wish I could take credit for the genius behind the organization, but I was inspired by a friend and by circumstance. My best friend from college moved to Honduras after he graduated and was studying retention rates in the schools in this barrio, and he wanted to do something to improve them.

IES Abroad: You recently finished a book about money management for women in their 20s and 30s before starting as an associate at the law firm Jenner & Block. How did this project come about?

KT: I started working at Jenner & Block a few months ago, and I made good headway on the book before I began. I decided to write it because I have so many friends who kept asking me the same questions: What should I do about my student loans? How much should I be saving for retirement? Should I buy a house? I grew up with two financial advisors for parents, so these topics were the stuff of our dinner conversations. (Yup, our dinner conversations were pretty boring.) I know there are many books providing financial advice, but I thought I could write a book in a particularly accessible format that would be helpful to many of my peers.

IES Abroad: What has been one of your most satisfying accomplishments to date? What are you most looking forward to next?

KT: My most satisfying accomplishment (if you can call it that) has been developing some really good friends. I know that’s corny, but it’s true. I’m an only child and have a tough family situation, so my friends help keep me on track. And I’m most looking forward to being a good friend back to them, because I have asked a lot of my friends lately.

IES Abroad: Why do you feel study abroad is important for students today?

KT: My time in college was pretty excellent, and I thought adult life would always be like that. It’s not. (Although my life right now is pretty excellent, too.) I think studying abroad helped me realize that when you’re not in a structured social environment like school, you have to work harder at making yourself happy. Truth be told, I’m still learning that lesson. But studying abroad, getting outside your comfort zone, is a good way to start. It’s also important to realize that there are lots of different ways (and places) to live your life, and lots of different definitions of success.

As a cinema student at the University of Southern California, Willard Huyck was drawn to study abroad in Paris to be at the heart of the French New Wave. Over the course of the year, Willard frequented two cinematheques where he saw at least 60 films, including a screening and live lecture with New Wave director Jean-Luc Godard. After graduation, Willard became a reader at a B-movie factory where he summarized scripts. Deciding he could write just as well, Willard wrote his first screenplay – The Devils 8, a low-budget action film that premiered in 1969 and launched his career. In 1978, Willard returned to Paris to film French Postcards, a movie about a junior year abroad, and, serendipitously, his role model, French filmmaker François Truffaut, was a regular on the set. Today, Willard is an Oscar-nominated motion picture screenwriter and director whose film credits include American Graffiti, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, and Radioland Murders. He also worked on screenplays for the first Star Wars and the first Mission Impossible. In our interview, Willard reflects on his transformative year abroad and his career in filmmaking, and he tells us about his other passion, still photography.

IES Abroad: What led you to study abroad and why did you choose Paris?

Willard Huyck: When I started college, I didn’t plan to study abroad. I just happened to be walking down a hall at the University of Southern California (USC) and noticed an advertisement on the wall about the IES program in Paris. I thought, “Wow… this sounds cool. Now how do I convince my parents?” So, I applied first, was excited when I was accepted - then told my parents. Fortunately, they thought it was a great idea. They went with me to New York to see me off as I boarded the Queen Elizabeth with the IES students and we sailed off for France. That’s something you don’t do anymore.

IES Abroad: Did you have any career plans in mind when you studied abroad?

WH: I didn’t have any career plans at that point. I had gone to USC to study journalism because I had been the editor of the high school newspaper, and SC had a famous journalism school. But before I studied abroad I had already switched my major to Cinema – again without telling my parents. One of the reasons I chose Paris was because I was crazy about the films being made by the French “Nouvelle Vague” (New Wave) directors: Jean-Luc Godard, François Truffaut, Eric Rohmer, Claude Chabrol.

IES Abroad: Did you understand how important French cinema was at the time?

WH: Oh, yeah. Definitely. French, Italian, English, and Japanese movies were the “text books” we studied at film school. When I got to Paris, I remember attending a screening after which Jean-Luc Godard spoke. That was a transformative moment and indelible memory. It was also amazing when I returned to Paris in 1978 to make my film French Postcards and actually got to know François Truffaut. Marie-France Pisier was in the film, and she had worked with Truffaut, so he would come by the set to see her. And because I spoke some French I got extra points with the French crew.

IES Abroad: What are some of your most influential memories from your time studying abroad?

WH: In those days, there were two French Cinematheques, and I would travel on the Metro between them constantly. I kept a list of all the movies I saw – which was about 60 that year. It was interesting because a lot them were American movies that the French loved. The other fond memories of my year aboard came from the traveling we did. We spent a school holiday in Spain, went skiing in Austria. After school finished, I took off with my girlfriend to Switzerland where her parents had a house. And from there I boarded the Orient Express train from Switzerland to Istanbul and on to Greece — where I made a stupid mistake changing money, got ripped off, and realized it was time to head home. The only problem was we didn’t carry credit cards in those days, and money had to be wired through Western Union. Making the call home to get the money for my plane ticket was a day-long nightmare in an Athens phone booth.   

IES Abroad: After graduating from USC, how did you get started writing screenplays? Were there skills learned abroad that you applied in the early days of your career?

WH: My first movie job was as a “reader.” I would read and synopsize scripts that were being submitted to the production company. And I would give my “professional” opinion – even though I was only a green film school graduate. I was working at a B-movie motorcycle and beach party factory. They didn’t exactly hire top tier writers, and one day I told my boss, “You know, I can write as well as some of these people.” And so he said, “Really? Okay, let’s see you do it. So, I wrote a low budget action film with a friend I’d gone to film school with. It was called The Devil’s 8.  It was my first screen credit, and got me into the Writers’ Guild. To celebrate, I invited all my friends to the opening night premiere on Hollywood Boulevard. In those days, they had search lights out in front of the theaters, and there was a also big crowd.  I went to the door with my friends and gave the manager my name. He said, “So? Who are you?” I said, “Well, we’re here for the premiere. I wrote the movie.” He said, “What movie?” I said, “The one you’re showing — The Devil’s 8.” He said, “We’re not showing that. You’re at the wrong theater. That one’s down the street.” He pointed to a dark, funky little theater. When we got there we found about ten people inside. Still, that movie was my lucky break. And it led to other premieres with slightly larger crowds.

IES Abroad: Your love and appreciation of still photography has been a constant in your life before, during, and after your work in film. In what ways did your experiences in Paris influence your interest in and passion for photography?

WH: My wife and I collect photography. It’s an interest that started at film school. In the sixties, before you could make your student movies, you had to learn still photography. You shot, developed and printed photographs that were supposed to tell a story. That came in handy on my junior year abroad. At the end of the year, members of our class put on a satirical play that I wrote. During the play, I used a slide projector to project photographs that I had shot around Paris with our “actors” that dealt with the action on the stage. We thought of it as multi-media, multi-lingual (French/English) extravaganza. It had a short run—one night. But it was big fun. 

IES Abroad: You have been nominated and received many awards for your work in film. What accomplishments are you the most proud of?

WH: It’s wonderful and satisfying when you make a movie that connects with people, that moves them, or makes them laugh. You feel like you’ve created a shared experience. We worked on three films that had that kind of impact: American Graffiti, the first Star Wars, and Indiana Jones And The Temple of Doom. 

IES Abroad: What is one thing you learned while abroad that remains a constant in your life?

WH: Not to be afraid of doing things that are off-the-wall and adventurous. I had some trepidation about going off for a year. And I did get homesick, and went through a period of gloomy French weather that had me “California Dreaming” of sunshine. But I look back on that year fondly.

IES Abroad: What advice would you give to students in film studies and other creative majors about studying abroad today?

WH: The experience of being abroad, opening yourself up to a different world, seeing new and different things is something that will get your creative juices flowing. If you are involved in the visual arts, or music, or writing, there will be stunning sights, enriching museum visits, and unexpected experiences to inspire you. For creative people, traveling and studying abroad has always been an important part of an aspiring artist’s education.  

IES Abroad: We sincerely thank you for your role as a judge, three years in a row now, for IES Abroad’s annual Study Abroad Film Festival. What has this experience been like for you?

WH: I was really impressed by the videos I reviewed. The finalists’ films were serious, funny, moving and insightful. They were well-crafted and showed real talent. I was surprised by the serious insights and emotions the filmmakers exhibited in their work. There have been a lot of technical advances since my 1965 slide projector—but it’s never the equipment that’s important. It’s the brains and sensibilities of the people behind the cameras that make the kind of interesting films that are coming out of the IES experience.

IES Abroad: Is there anything else that you want to share with readers?

WH: I’ve always thought it was strange how important and memorable the high school years are for most people. I think it’s the same with the experience of studying abroad. It’s a relatively short period of time, but it has a real impact and makes a real imprint on the rest of your life. My junior year in Paris was like that.

From for-profit to non-profit, Chris Crane (Vienna 1971-73), owned and transformed COMPS InfoSystems, Inc. from a small, print-based publisher to an electronic real estate database publisher, until he sold it in 2000. Chris was then recruited by Opportunity International, the world’s largest faith-based global microfinance organization and served as President and CEO for the next seven years, where he grew revenue through private donations from $8 million to $53 million. In 2009, he founded Edify, a faith-based humanitarian organization that makes small business loans to enable financial sustainability among Christian schools in Africa and Latin America. Read on to see how Chris’s experience studying abroad in Vienna gave him the adventurous spirit necessary to change the trajectory of his own life and thereby, the lives of hundreds of thousands of children in developing nations around the world.

IES Abroad: As an undergraduate studying finance, why did you decide to study abroad, and why did you choose Vienna?

Chris Crane: My good friend, Jack Trifero and I actually applied to the IES Abroad Durham program, but the spots were limited and they turned us down. However, we were accepted for the Vienna program. Because we didn't have to speak German that worked for us. Further, my friend Jack told me he was reading up on IES Abroad Vienna and we could study in a palace which really impressed us at the time. When I went home and told my father he said Vienna was in the heart of Eastern and Western Europe and that it if were in our shoes, he'd much rather go to Vienna than to Durham. So the decision was made!

IES Abroad: What happened to you in Vienna encouraged you to move from the for-profit to the non-profit sector?

CC: Before Vienna, I was totally focused on business, accounting and finance classes. Vienna and all of Europe expanded my horizons and introduced me to art, music, literature, philosophy, and architecture I had never before known. I visited 23 countries and almost exclusively studied the liberal arts. Seeing, experiencing, and studying it all at the same time had a tremendous impact on me. I made lifelong European and American friends.

IES Abroad: Who had the most impact on you during your time in Vienna?

CC: Center Director Clarence Giese told us from the first day and throughout the year to “be open to the new. Embrace the culture and the people. You can do things in a totally different way than how they’ve been done before.” He gave permission – as well as provided the social, emotional, and psychological platform – to embrace the unknown and move from one adventure to the next. Clarence chose me to be a student assistant and remain in Vienna for a second year. That extra year solidified my German language skills and allowed me to make more friends and travel extensively throughout Europe.

IES Abroad: After graduating from Boston College, you went on to earn your MBA from Harvard and began your career in the for-profit business sector. Were there lessons learned in Vienna that were particularly useful early on in your career?

CC: Learning to look at the world and various issues from very disparate points of view was really helpful to me. Also, I had not been interested in art and music before going to Vienna, and I learned a lot taking classes there and visiting museums. Early in my career, I found that topics about art, and music and European history came up in conversation. My background gave me the wherewithal to contribute to those conversations in a meaningful way. It made me a well-rounded person and I'm grateful for that. I worked for a consulting firm early on and they had an office in Germany. When I applied, I wrote on my application that I spoke German. They didn't have a post open in the U.S. at that time, but I did get an interview in German with their German national who hiring. I didn't get the job, but I was in the running.

IES Abroad: Transforming COMPS InfoSystems, Inc. from a small company into a national player and eventually listing it as an IPO is a great business success story. Why did you decide to sell and transition into the non-profit sector and establish Edify.org?

CC: When you take your company public, you lose the right to turn down a buyer who makes an offer. You lose some control in the board room. After the decision was made to sell the company, I stepped back and took a few years off. It was during that time that I got a call from Opportunity International to move into the non-profit sector. I deflected the offer at first, but in the end realized that it was a calling and I couldn't turn it down.

IES Abroad: What have been some of Edify’s greatest accomplishments to date?

CC: At the time we started Edify, there was nobody doing what we were doing. It was great to jump into this new arena. A friend of mine and I created the first Edify school in Africa together. We have 60 employees now and 42 are foreign nationals. And there are three other organizations doing what we do now. The cumulative impact today of Edify is 1,902 schools, 468,570 students, 6,472 teachers trained. I'm very proud of the outcomes Edify has had across Burkina Faso, the Dominican Republic, Ethiopia, Ghana, Guatemala, Liberia, Peru, and Rwanda.

IES Abroad: You have mentioned that Vienna provided you with the opportunity to study and appreciate art and music. Why is this important for a businessman, change agent, and leader?

CC: First and foremost, it gives me a lot of enjoyment. I'm an Opera devotee and try to attend as many performances as I can in San Diego. But really, the opening up of my worldview is what impacted me the most. I always listen carefully to others' points of view and take them under careful consideration. That came out of my experience in Vienna. Having spent two years in Vienna was a real differentiator for me and I attribute it to getting accepted into Harvard Business School at the time I applied.